[rozettasmolanov]

Hi ftannouss,

It was a research by Dean Hamer published in 1993. Refutations were done by many other scientists. Among them was a study by George Rice, a neuroscientist at the University of Western Ontario, which refuted Hamer’s findings completely. Until today if you ask any geneticist about a linkage between any particular gene and behavior, they won't be able to show it to you. It's just the same as trying to prove that basketball or football players are born that way.

As per regarding punishment towards homosexuals caught in the act (it has to be caught in the act by a number of witnesses whom are considered trustworthy and each witness must independently saw the crime without any pre-planning), there are differences in opinions in regard to that. I remember someone posted an article about the rule of Taliban in Afghanistan before Afghanistan was invaded. It was reported that two homosexual men were caught and their punishment was to be paraded with their faces blacken (Taliban followed the least severe punishment available). There are certain conditions to be met if the punishment was by death. I don't have the details with me on what those conditions are.

Maybe some one else can put the link to the article again about Taliban rule before the Khorasan war?

[gydrorway]

Sister next time open a slightly hygienic thread.

What do you mean by this?

[vNQmO2BF]

I don't understand when people say homosexuality is natural i think its quite clearly against nature...if everyone was gay the population would die out

its like say a person was inclined towards animals (lol sorry for the example i just read a headline about a man in Zimbabwe who is in love with a donkey ) if people start saying they want to marry animals will we accept that to be normal?

if people say we have desire for our mothers or sisters, will we begin to say its a natural inclination

I do believe such desires do exists within humans but then again some humans have the desire to murder and rape but that doesn't make it okay for us to act on those desires, i believe that those who have these desires are tested in this way and some of us are tested in other ways, the test is to see if we give in to our desires or fight against them

wallahu alam

[gydrorway]

Sister next time open a slightly hygienic thread.

Maripat, Are you going to reply to my question about the meaning of this statement?

[gydrorway]

I don't understand when people say homosexuality is natural i think its quite clearly against nature...if everyone was gay the population would die out

its like say a person was inclined towards animals (lol sorry for the example i just read a headline about a man in Zimbabwe who is in love with a donkey ) if people start saying they want to marry animals will we accept that to be normal?

if people say we have desire for our mothers or sisters, will we begin to say its a natural inclination

I do believe such desires do exists within humans but then again some humans have the desire to murder and rape but that doesn't make it okay for us to act on those desires, i believe that those who have these desires are tested in this way and some of us are tested in other ways, the test is to see if we give in to our desires or fight against them

wallahu alam

If anyone has an inclination or desire for an animal, well, there is no real useful comment I can make about that. Scary Stuff!!!

If others have a desire towards their mother or sister, that is incest, not comparable to homosexuality. And in most cases of incest their is no consent, so you are talking about rape too.
A desire to rape of murder is a choice, in my view, homosexuality is not a choice and I think it is unfair to compare those acts someone's sexuality.

There is no conclusive evidence to support that homosexuality is a choice.

[vNQmO2BF]

If anyone has an inclination or desire for an animal, well, there is no real useful comment I can make about that. Scary Stuff!!!

If others have a desire towards their mother or sister, that is incest, not comparable to homosexuality. And in most cases of incest their is no consent, so you are talking about rape too.
A desire to rape of murder is a choice, in my view, homosexuality is not a choice and I think it is unfair to compare those acts someone's sexuality.

There is no conclusive evidence to support that homosexuality is a choice.

the incest thing isn't actually true, we hear of many cases in the media where a brother and sister are in love and both are consenting, or a mother and son, i think there was even a case a while ago about a grand mother and grandson

all of these were consenting adults

why do we see incest as wrong and how is it different to homosexuality?
we can argue the health concerns of children but then again homosexuals have the aids risk and they can't even produce children

surely if we use the same logic as we do with homosexuality that they are in love or they can't help who they desire its the same reasons why some people can approve of incest

[bitymnmictada]

Maripat, Are you going to reply to my question about the meaning of this statement?

Sorry I did not ignore-I just did not have any thing new to add.

[cenRealliat]

Imam Junayd al-Baghdadi was reputed to have said (do not know the authenticity of the statement, but it's quite poignant nonetheless): "A person is not to be blamed for his nature. Rather, he is to be blamed if he acts according to his nature."

So whether homosexual attraction is a choice or not is not really even relevant. What it is is blameworthy if it is acted on and praiseworthy if it is struggled against, like any other unlawful desire or wish.

[gydrorway]

Sorry I did not ignore-I just did not have any thing new to add.

You still didnt answer the question on what you originally meant by a hygenic thread??

[bitymnmictada]

You still didnt answer the question on what you originally meant by a hygenic thread??

It is about child hood activities. If some one will say unhygienic words we'll just show our displeasure and disliking by whispering in everybody else's ears that this boy has said unhygienic words. So the conclusion is that we should avoid saying unhygienic things.

Hey! I thought I was writing in English!

[putza]

One thing is to be a hermephrodite, which is naturally born with a condition , and with those the rules of Pardah or hijab are also different.Society does treat them harshly in some coountries which i believe is wrong and these people should be looked after.

Another thing is to be a completely normal male or a female, and then you develop a sick habbit out of lust, and then you come out in the public and propogate it and try to destroy the normal and naturual functionality of the society. You spread STDs around by indulging in unhealthy practices( ofcourse STDs can also be spread through straight people, but homosexuals are many times more prone to this). This should be punished, just like how drug dealers are, so people are discouraged to commit such acts in the society.Similarly the authorities should punish these people to openly comeout in the public and propogate this habbit.

If two people want to continue with satisfying their lust then by all means go ahead , but keep it in your four walls, dont come out in the society and propogate it as an alternate way of life.

Now since we muslims chose to come and live within people of these lands, then we have to be mindfull of their culture and their practices. People in these part of the world accept it , so we have no business to comeout all aggressive against these people in our every day lives. Yes when appropriate we should educate them and reason with them, but we cant loose our temper .Just how in our daily lives we often walk by a pub or a bar, without shouting at it that close this evil facility down, similarly we dont pay any attention to a gay person other then dealing with him out of nessessity . But we should not be out right rude with them, because alot of times we have to see these people on a case by case basis. Some have been abused and brought into this habbit. Some are just into it with their own complete choice. So dealing with them, we often dont know what he or she has been through.

But all that weird acting where you see a man acting like a women , talking like a women and exaggerating it, that should be ignored, because its stupidity, Allah did not create a man with that sort of attitude. But again not all of them are like that. Sometimes you wouldnt even know that a man is gay, because he will act just like a normal guy.

Overall, its a very personal decision that these people make, but the society should always maintain this that this way of life is unatural, corrupt,unethical, immoral and this is a disease and that we are ready to help those get out of it who wish to. Otherwise please dont pollute our current and future generations and keep it to yourself. Just like how you inject that powder,pill, or smoke that splif, or take those shrooms within your four walls, away from the sight of the public, to satisfy your ecstatic desires, similarly, if you are stuck with the habbit of homosexuality , then either go get help or take this drug of yours in your four walls and not pollute our society.Thankyou

[gydrorway]

It is about child hood activities. If some one will say unhygienic words we'll just show our displeasure and disliking by whispering in everybody else's ears that this boy has said unhygienic words. So the conclusion is that we should avoid saying unhygienic things.

Hey! I thought I was writing in English!

Sorry Maripat, still in the dark about what unhygenic words I am supposed to have used!!

[putza]

Sorry Maripat, still in the dark about what unhygenic words I am supposed to have used!!

I think you dont understand the connection between homosexuality and Sodomy. When Maripat said unhygenic, i think everybody understood his comments.Do you even understand what a homosexual is, and what homosexuality is?

What is it that we want to discuss here, is it how we should act with homosexuals, our attitute towards them or do you want to find out if its okay to be involved in homosexuality? because from your questions it seems like our attitude, and no body said here that kill a homo where ever you see him. But do expect people showing their disgust and disliking of sodomy.Which doesnt necessarily means that treat them like animals. They are human and we treat them as humans, and we just dont like their sin they are involved in, and will try to stop them from spreading and propogating/inviting people to it. In islam we are commaned to stop wrong doings with appropriate means without oppressing and guide and help people to perform good deeds.

[gydrorway]

I think you dont understand the connection between homosexuality and Sodomy. When Maripat said unhygenic, i think everybody understood his comments.Do you even understand what a homosexual is, and what homosexuality is?

What is it that we want to discuss here, is it how we should act with homosexuals, our attitute towards them or do you want to find out if its okay to be involved in homosexuality? because from your questions it seems like our attitude, and no body said here that kill a homo where ever you see him. But do expect people showing their disgust and disliking of sodomy.Which doesnt necessarily means that treat them like animals. They are human and we treat them as humans, and we just dont like their sin they are involved in, and will try to stop them from spreading and propogating/inviting people to it. In islam we are commaned to stop wrong doings with appropriate means without oppressing and guide and help people to perform good deeds.

Asking me if I know the connection between homosexuality & sodomy is to be honest insulting. Then asking me do I know a homosexual is or what homosexaulity is about is even worse again.

The reason I started this thread is the anger I feel towards the Catholic Church and their intolerance of what I believe to be something that is not a chosen behaviour. I do not accept what the Pope said about gay people being evil.

So on that basis since I am no longer Catholic and completely reject its teaching, I want to know what people think in Islam and how they behave towards gay people.

Where does tolerance come into the equation?

I will wait for Maripat to respond to my question about a hygenic thread because I could jump to all sort of conclusions about what he meant and his attitude or what seems like lack of tolerance by making a statement like that.

Just like in christian society, in Islamic society homosexuals are oppressed. I completely reject intolerance of anykind, including intolerance of muslims.

[7UENf0w7]

Asking me if I know the connection between homosexuality & sodomy is to be honest insulting. Then asking me do I know a homosexual is or what homosexaulity is about is even worse again.

The reason I started this thread is the anger I feel towards the Catholic Church and their intolerance of what I believe to be something that is not a chosen behaviour. I do not accept what the Pope said about gay people being evil.

So on that basis since I am no longer Catholic and completely reject its teaching, I want to know what people think in Islam and how they behave towards gay people.

Where does tolerance come into the equation?

I will wait for Maripat to respond to my question about a hygenic thread because I could jump to all sort of conclusions about what he meant and his attitude or what seems like lack of tolerance by making a statement like that.

Just like in christian society, in Islamic society homosexuals are oppressed. I completely reject intolerance of anykind, including intolerance of muslims.

While it may seem that Christianity and Islam are at odds with each other, the reality is that on Social issues, Christians and Muslims are in almost completwe agreement. If your mad at the catholics churches treatment of homsexuals, you really wont like Islams treatment of homsexuals. Even Budhists, you know those pacifists monks led by the sweet old man known as the dhali lama, are agianst homsexuality and the punishment for homsexuality in the kingdom of Tibet when it was ruled by the soverign dali llama king, was repentance or death. S, Since all of the worlds major religions see homsexuality as a major sin - maybe its you whose wrong? Who knows, maybe you know more than every Pope, Prophet, Dali LLama, and Guru whoever lived.

[putza]

Asking me if I know the connection between homosexuality & sodomy is to be honest insulting. Then asking me do I know a homosexual is or what homosexaulity is about is even worse again.

The reason I started this thread is the anger I feel towards the Catholic Church and their intolerance of what I believe to be something that is not a chosen behaviour. I do not accept what the Pope said about gay people being evil.

So on that basis since I am no longer Catholic and completely reject its teaching, I want to know what people think in Islam and how they behave towards gay people.

Where does tolerance come into the equation?

I will wait for Maripat to respond to my question about a hygenic thread because I could jump to all sort of conclusions about what he meant and his attitude or what seems like lack of tolerance by making a statement like that.

Just like in christian society, in Islamic society homosexuals are oppressed. I completely reject intolerance of anykind, including intolerance of muslims.

Seriously, keep your emotions aside for sometime, we dont need to know about them, and tell us do you see a link between homosexuality and Sodomy? do you understand what sodomy is and what homosexuality is? when you answer this, then there is a point to move ahead.

[vNQmO2BF]

Asking me if I know the connection between homosexuality & sodomy is to be honest insulting. Then asking me do I know a homosexual is or what homosexaulity is about is even worse again.

The reason I started this thread is the anger I feel towards the Catholic Church and their intolerance of what I believe to be something that is not a chosen behaviour. I do not accept what the Pope said about gay people being evil.

So on that basis since I am no longer Catholic and completely reject its teaching, I want to know what people think in Islam and how they behave towards gay people.

Where does tolerance come into the equation?

I will wait for Maripat to respond to my question about a hygenic thread because I could jump to all sort of conclusions about what he meant and his attitude or what seems like lack of tolerance by making a statement like that.

Just like in christian society, in Islamic society homosexuals are oppressed. I completely reject intolerance of anykind, including intolerance of muslims.

Muslims hate the sin of homosexuality, i don't really understand why people who are homosexual and believe it is natural still choose to follow religions that quite clearly mention it is wrong you can't pick and choose the bits that suit you

i mean tomorrow if people were to say to you why are you intolerant of incest, you can't help who you have desire for and who you love and have a connection with etc, will change your views because society now says its okay?

you still didn't quite point out the difference here, why is incest wrong if homosexuality is perfectly natural?

and i don't know why people cause an uproar if someone such as a pope or imam was to say they believe homosexuality is wrong and unnatural, your allowed to have your opinion so why can't others have theirs?

you feel they are intolerant but aren't you also intolerant of their beliefs?

[putza]

Asking me if I know the connection between homosexuality & sodomy is to be honest insulting. Then asking me do I know a homosexual is or what homosexaulity is about is even worse again.

The reason I started this thread is the anger I feel towards the Catholic Church and their intolerance of what I believe to be something that is not a chosen behaviour. I do not accept what the Pope said about gay people being evil.

So on that basis since I am no longer Catholic and completely reject its teaching, I want to know what people think in Islam and how they behave towards gay people.

Where does tolerance come into the equation?

I will wait for Maripat to respond to my question about a hygenic thread because I could jump to all sort of conclusions about what he meant and his attitude or what seems like lack of tolerance by making a statement like that.

Just like in christian society, in Islamic society homosexuals are oppressed. I completely reject intolerance of anykind, including intolerance of muslims.

If you wanna know whats there about homosexuality in Islam, then open the Quran read the Chapter Lot, Surah Lot, also read in the commentary what the Scholors have written about it, just to give you a little, the worst punishment to ever strike to a people on this earth from Allah was to the people of Lot, why........because they became homosexuals/sodomites. Take it, or leave it. There is no point arguing here with us.

how we muslims will behave with homosexuals in western societies i think alot of people have told you about it now. We will treat them as we treat tom, harry and john in regular day life.

[gydrorway]

Muslims hate the sin of homosexuality, i don't really understand why people who are homosexual and believe it is natural still choose to follow religions that quite clearly mention it is wrong you can't pick and choose the bits that suit you

i mean tomorrow if people were to say to you why are you intolerant of incest, you can't help who you have desire for and who you love and have a connection with etc, will change your views because society now says its okay?

you still didn't quite point out the difference here, why is incest wrong if homosexuality is perfectly natural?

and i don't know why people cause an uproar if someone such as a pope or imam was to say they believe homosexuality is wrong and unnatural, your allowed to have your opinion so why can't others have theirs?

you feel they are intolerant but aren't you also intolerant of their beliefs?

So if you commit any sin, you cant believe in God, does that apply to muslims who smoke, since it is haram, muslims who have sex before marriage, also haram? That is picking and chosing the bits that suit. Show me any muslim who practices the Quran and sunnah to the letter of the law. That would be perfection and that doesnt exist in this world. Nothing is so black & white.

A relationship between blood relatives in not comparable to gay men & lesbians. Ask yourself this? What would you prefer? Your own son and daughter to have a sexual relationship or one of them to be gay?

Intolerant people go out of their way to make people feel isolated and inferior which leads to bullying and depression and possibly suicide. I might not agree a particular behaviour but I would never accept oppression of anyone.

[gydrorway]

If you wanna know whats there about homosexuality in Islam, then open the Quran read the Chapter Lot, Surah Lot, also read in the commentary what the Scholors have written about it, just to give you a little, the worst punishment to ever strike to a people on this earth from Allah was to the people of Lot, why........because they became homosexuals/sodomites. Take it, or leave it. There is no point arguing here with us.

how we muslims will behave with homosexuals in western societies i think alot of people have told you about it now. We will treat them as we treat tom, harry and john in regular day life.

I want to know how you can reconcile hatred and intolerance towards a group of people with Islam, It is as simple as that I suppose!