//"How should we view The Salafis and Salafism"//

Salafism = Heresy
Pseudo-Salafis = Heretics

What do you mean by Heretic?

maybe means it for anthropomorphism or for stepping out of the madhabs.

this discussion is unfortunate though as many Salafis are actually rather nice and not extreme in their religion and if you actually look at them they are basically Hanbalis and if you actually listen to them they are mostly not really anthropomorphists even though they may say things that sound like it.

don't tar all Salafis with the extremism of the worst of them - that exactly what the worst of them tend to do with us - it just creates another wedge amongst the Muslims.

I agree with you Sidi http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...icon_smile.gif

Heretic has many meanings, so i ask what you mean by it Brother?

Salafism/Wahhabism is a sect like Shi'ism and should be regarded as such for a detailled fatwa on this sect see:

Wahhabism: Imam Muhammad Abu Zahra Explains (al-Azhar)
http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=918&CATE=1

Salafis might be Mutashaddid in certain areas and in certain areas might have lost the plot, but how does that make them like Shi'ism? Shi'ah are generally out the fold of Islam, is that you think regarding the Salafis?

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There are salafis that come out with ridiculous statements with respect to the Essence of Allah Ta'ala. Not necessarily the lay 'salafi' because they don't have a clue, but the more knowledgeable ones go to extremes which can only be described as heresy i.e. ahlul bida.

What do the ulema say regarding the ahle hadees movement in the subcontinent? Are they from Ahlus Sunnah or do they deem them as ahlul bida?

Allahu 'Alam.

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All goodness is for Allah alone.

Yes they missed that part but alhamdulillah did not treat them as khawarij as many groups both inside of salafis and outside call them as. You know calling someone Khawarij is synonymous to calling them Kaafir. Astaghfirullah.

OBL on allegations of being khawarij, responded by claiming the Saudi state itself was the khawarij who fought against the caliphate and declared the Muslims of hijaz as disbelievers and fought against them and so on. "Salafi jihadism" is just another big mess that covers its mess by opposition against west.

From - "you called him The Mahdi" changed to now "you referred to him as sheikh".

Its better you remain that way. Lets see if you can after your flip-flop.

How should we view The Salafis and Salafism
 

I wanted to know how people felt about Salafis. I have strong ambiguous feelings about the group. Very strong I would say.

At times I go into a mode thinking this group represent Umar r.a. out to demolish every innovation with rigid principalism and purify Islam. I admire that they are particularly obsessed about Tawheed almost fanatically. I think every Muslim group is now on its toes ensuring that anything they propagate doesnot conflict with Tawheed. I also am particularly impressed by their scholarly views on Jihad and I was surprised that this group which most see as a fundamentalist bedrock is actually very articulate, clear and distinct about the valid Jihad and invalid Jihad and many of the salafi scholars condemn Bin Ladin. To quote one of their imams who was answering a question wether bin laden is a mujahid or a deviant "yes, bin laden is a mujahid however he is doing jihad in the path of shaytaan".

At times I think they are out to disunite the ummah and every other muslim following/propagating non-salafism now is a mubtadih/mushrik or one ignorant in hadith and harmful to society. Their slogans and propaganda of 'there is no unity on deviancy' and things like these upset me. Another trait I dont like about them and a trait in various other groups is pharisee-ism which is particularly strong in the saudi salafis. That self righteous outlook which characterizes saudi society - the imposed dresscode, the treatment and suprression of women, the muttawa and the way they view others outside their creed and ethnic group. Another trait I dont admire which probably most here do admire is their aggression to shias. My view on shias is complex but eventually they are Muslims with whom we need to sympathize and recconcile and that view I think is beneficial for the Ummah.

I know there are various threads touching upon the salafis in this forum mostly negative. But how should the Sunni Hanafis, inspired by scholarship of deoband view the salafis knowing very well that their creed is more non-accomodating of other Muslim groups than any other creed. Should we regard Salafis as our most closest brothers in faith as ones who have restored Tawhid and keep Bid'ah in check or that Muslims were always aware of the importance of Monotheism. Should we view them as just loud mouths out to condemn the diversity of Muslims and fragment it to the point of enmity with each other or should we view that as an inadvertent consequence of their sincere creed and methodology. WE also share some of their traits in how we treat our barelwi brethren despite them having some dedicated members in their scholarly body also like Tahir-ul-qadri, I think however we are still generally more tolerant and more inclined to unity which is a strong and good Islamic trait.

I am just writing this thread as am I want to clarify when I encounter or see Salafis what should my impression be about them. I usually tell people salafis are overall good but they are not the best and have mistakes like many other groups. Is that an adequate way to view them.

[QUOTE=mubakr;791238]

every innovation with rigid principalism and purify Islam. I admire that they are particularly obsessed about Tawheed almost fanatically. I think every Muslim group is now on its toes ensuring that anything they propagate doesnot conflict with Tawheed. Their understanding of Tawheed is faulty. Is man on a earth in the universe physically distant from Allah http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/taala.gif ? They say were are close to Allah http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/taala.gif by His Knowledge but Knowledge does not just exist independently of Allah http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/taala.gif. They have a heard time understanding nuanced and subtle thoughts, everything is black or white with no room for ambiguity. Ambiguity is a part of human life everything cannot be reduced to binary opposition or logic. For instance non Salafis say Divoce is allowed in Islam but one of the most disliked things by Allah http://www.discussworldissues.com/fo...lies/taala.gif...this makes sense to me...Salafis will say how can it be allowed and still be disliked, it is nonsense.

I also am particularly impressed by their scholarly views on Jihad and I was surprised that this group which most see as a fundamentalist bedrock is actually very articulate, clear and distinct about the valid Jihad and invalid Jihad and many of the salafi scholars condemn Bin Ladin. There are many types of Salafis some follow the Jihadi doctrines and others do not.

To quote one of their imams who was answering a question wether bin laden is a mujahid or a deviant "yes, bin laden is a mujahid however he is doing jihad in the path of shaytaan". What mathab did Bin Laden follow? Ayman Zwahari is number 2 was tortured by the rulers of Egypt and released, people who know him said he was a different man after the torture...these people have been created by the Tyrants in the Muslim and Non Muslim lands.

i suggest anybody sincerely wishing to investigate bin laden and alq@ida should read this book.
it is a masterpiece; unbiased towards AQ and is very well researched. the journalist who wrote it spent ten years researching on AQ after 2001. finally in 2011 he published the book. within weeks he was tortured and killed by ISI - pakistan's intelligence agency (allegedly).

i am not asking people to agree with me on AQ (hey im no die-hard fan either). but at least if you disagree do so with an educated opinion.

i think the author completely missed the part about fighting muslims who openly side with kuffar against other Muslims for the eighth group. since he does not think of them as khawarij this should soften his stance.

mubakr: you should read the paper. it will answer many of your questions.
the paper also shows sister aram was quite spot on.
good find AK

in my opinions Salafis are idiots as they reject the SALAFS(pious Imams) & there are various sects of Salafis

1. Accommodating Salafis - these salafis accomodate other groups and love them, but stick to their own stupid agenda
2. Dangerous Salafis - these people are arrogant on their views and ll do anything to oppose other people. they ll even make u a kafir or hit you - if you do something different. Stay away from these group
3. Super Salafis - these Salafis are different from normal Salafis as they invent more things in deen. For example - one adhan in Jumma, one Zakat per lifetime, scolding Sahabas, they also declare that they are the 73rd group which will enter Jannah
4. Ahle Salafis - The above categories atleast try to move with other people. These foolish sect is followed in a masjid close to my city. For eg : if you have a beard and wear a thobe you cant lead the Salah. IF you wear shorts, you are permitted to lead the Salah. I heard that STUPID salafi guy stopped a moulana from leading Salah and permitted some half pant guy.

Make dua for these deviant sects.

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Sorry, brother, but I have a hard time taking you seriously ever since you referred to Adnan Oktar as the mahdi.

Yes this needs context. You are saying I said Adnan Oktar is The MAhdi. You didnt say I might have implied or that you think I might be believing that.

(suddenly now I am saying Mahdi is instructing AO and AO is not The Mahdi) Brother I think you just need to rest your mouth because it is acting strange right now. If it needs to go into tattle mode then do it on the Harun Yahya thread where its relevant. You have said twice you wont say anything. Do you always have cognitive-action dissonance.

[QUOTE=Abu Zakir;791501] Same with many others who turned excessively harsh or callous due to their treatment by the secular tyrants in Egypt, Jordan and other places, very sad.

Even going back to Syed Qutb (ra) the effect that torture has on some is to make them less humaine than they should be, less than they started off.

Brothers can see for themselves:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...384#post787384

Sister Acacia, who actually understands Turkish as well, called you out on this issue.

Criticizing Salafis before setting your own house straight is extremely hypocritical, especially when no Sunni would refer to Adnan Oktar the way you have.