[LarpBulaBus]

While I can't claim to entirely understand the college binge-drinking culture, being a stranger and all, it seems to me that the problem is not age so much as a complete lack of experience combined with no good education on the subject.

I mean, I had wine with company starting around age nine. I got to appreciate and respect the power of alcohol. I got used to gauging its effects on myself and others. I also learned, in a perfectly controlled and safe environment, that there's a certain point at which you stop drinking, because past that point it just ain't fun.

Then I got to college and was horrified by the morons competing to see how much booze they could handle. It's like these kids have a fundamental disconnect with reality. They appreciate that it gets you hammered but...idunno what, it's like they think it stops doing anything once you start giggling. That you can just drink the stuff like water and the worst that can happen is a bad hangover. The inevitable biochemical facts of the situation seem to elude them entirely.

And of course, what have they been told about alcohol as teenagers? "Don't drink even once or your liver will explode and you'll lose your job! Drinking bad! BAD! Never mind that your parents have a beer with dinner every night." That's all they know. It's strange how plenty of people object to abstinence-only sex ed but don't even blink when we try to feed kids this preposterous crap.

[Verger99]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Elok is probably at least in part correct. However, I think it's also something uniquely American - our self-indulgent culture (which is presumably an offshoot of the 'hippie' movement). But who knows... You do know they have alcoholics in every country don't you?

[stastony]

Originally posted by Arrian
We have some technology now that could help with the DD thing. I see no reason to kill DinoDoc...

[ElisasAUG]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Elok is probably at least in part correct. However, I think it's also something uniquely American - our self-indulgent culture (which is presumably an offshoot of the 'hippie' movement). But who knows... It has a hell of a lot less to do with hippies almost everything to do with consumerism. We are taught as soon as we're old enough to watch t that we should indulge every whim and spend all our money, even more than we have.

[VeniHemealm]

they're old enough to die for their country, they're old enough to drink

[BaselBimbooooo]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It actually brings to mind an interesting question for myself.

Neither my girlfriend nor I drink (at all, ever), nor have either of us (at all, ever) except for church as a child/young adult.

I generally agree with Elok, that raising children to entirely abstain from alcohol probably will cause them - or at least an appreciable fraction - to become worse drunks than if they have some exposure to it.

However, both my GF and I abstain entirely (and likely will forever, or at least for a long time), due to various reasons. I do not necessarily expect my children to do so, however, and probably won't even teach them that they should - I will tell them why I do, and why my GF does (or, rather, she will tell them), but I suspect that they won't make the same choice (as they didn't have the experiences that caused both of us, separately, to make that choice).

Fortunately it will be 15-20 years before I have to make this decision, but ... how do I raise my children to be comfortable with alcohol, when I do not partake of any myself? I don't plan on having it around the house ... so my choices are:

a) Get alcohol at times specifically to give it to my kids, without having it myself, and realistically not knowing exactly what it's going to do to them (since I have never partaken myself)
b) Send my kids over to someone else's house, who drinks, and let them teach my kids (this is only a possible solution if this imaginary person exists who I would trust with this)
c) Tell them about alcohol, but don't actually give them any

C) seems particularly dangerous, unless I'm really, really certain of my kids' mentalities ... but neither a) nor b) are really great options, either.

This is where I hope for option D (prohibition) but don't really expect it (nor really hope for it, of course, for the obvious reasons)... I think it really depends on your kids. No one approach is going to work with all personalities. That having been said, I wouldn't introduce alcohol for the sake of introducing it. Living a life and running a house with alcohol will serve as an example that alcohol isn't necessary to have a good time. At the same time, if a situation comes up somewhere other than your house, say a toast at a family/friends house, or a trip over-seas or something, and your child(ren) seem curious, I think allowing them to try it would be good.

I think people make too big a deal about exposure to things, not just alcohol, but everything. If a kid doesn't want to drink, they won't. If they do, they will. Doesn't mean you have zero influence, but I think you can only moderate behavior, not create/destroy it.

[StivRichardOff]

Originally posted by Kirnwaffen
I think there are two areas where we can really make strides with this problem. One starts at home, with parents educating their children about the effects of alcohol, and maybe even nurturing some controlled experience with it. The problem is that parents are either alcoholics or are ****ed up in some other way. Either way it contributes to alcoholism.

[Pheboasmabs]

Driving age to 21 is obviously absurd.

[CHEAPSOFTOEMONLINE]

I am beginning to wonder though about having any crime committed under the influence of alcohol be a major crime... rather than having it almost as an excuse as sometimes now.

JM

[LICraig]

Originally posted by Kidicious
You can not raise the driving age to 21. People have to get to work and other places.
So improve your public transportation system.

[vipbunter]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That would be just great, however raising the driving age to 21 would still be ridiculous. It's bad enough that the drinking age has been 18 this whole time. I say if you can't do it when you turn 18 you shouldn't be able to do it period. ?? I thought that the Raygun forced the states to raise the drinking age to 21 back in the '80s??

Cars are a lot more dangerous than alcohol and require a lot more maturity to handle safely.

[CindyLavender]

The problem is that it is rather easy to get a license to drive, and incredibly difficult to lose once you get one, especially for drunk driving. Many lawyers have practices limited to retaining the privilage to drive for those who desrve to lose it. They are well paid and very good at what they do, unforunately for their clients' next victims.

[orgagsUpsepsy]

So improve your public transportation system And those of us who live in rural areas?

Busses are not the answer.

[Serttyfd]

Neither my girlfriend nor I drink (at all, ever), nor have either of us (at all, ever) except for church as a child/young adult. The same situation for myself.

I generally agree with Elok, that raising children to entirely abstain from alcohol probably will cause them - or at least an appreciable fraction - to become worse drunks than if they have some exposure to it. It's all about responsible drinking. All things in moderation. Teach your child their limits, and how much they can drink. I didn't drink at all until I was 19, and I didn't go binge afterwards. I drank, realised it wasn't a big deal and then went completely dry again for several years. Now I might drink on special occasions.

I do not necessarily expect my children to do so, however, and probably won't even teach them that they should - I will tell them why I do, and why my GF does (or, rather, she will tell them), but I suspect that they won't make the same choice (as they didn't have the experiences that caused both of us, separately, to make that choice). If you honestly feel you are better off not drinking, then it is very important to teach your kids when they are underage that they should not drink at all, and that if they want to drink, they can do so when they are older. Make that very clear that the restriction is temporary.

What I would do is take my kid out to a party on his 18th birthday and offer him wine if he wishes. If he lives on his own, I would offer him beer along with other stuff when he comes to visit. This is a chance for him to have some experience with the taste of alcohol, under your supervision.

You need to make it clear after 18, that responsible drinking is no different from anything else, that while he has the privilege to drink alcohol, it also comes with the responsibility not to hurt anyone else while doing so, and not to drink to excess.

This is how I would suggest you handle things. Let them drink at first under your supervision, until they get the point that alcohol isn't that great of a thrill.

[Beatris]

This also coincides with my view that the people with drug problems normally start in their early teens.

Guys I know who try stuff/etc in their 20s, don't seem as likely to have problems.

JM

[GohJHM9k]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I'm sorry I don't buy it and it isn't a good justification for banning alcohol. It's a convenient excuse to ban things from perfectly capable young adults because their brain is growing.

Newsflash, your brain is always growing.
Not at the same rate. Most the time, your brain isn't growing rapidly. It occasionally makes a new connection, and occasionally prunes one. At two times in your life, though, this is wrong. These are your rainy seasons or whatever.. your brain springs to life making all sorts of connections, and removing lots of other ones.

The book doesn't tie itself into the question of how we treat teenagers at all. It was just noting that people are generally wrong when they think that the brain does most of it's development when people are Because biologically the brain of a 8 yearold isn't changing much (still some, yeah). However, the brain of a 14-16 year old is changing a whole lot. Biologically, for the brain, these are the most important times.

And it is the brain that determines a lot of who you are.

JM

[Wavgbtif]

Here here!