[occalmnab]

TBH, I don't really care about people too much either

But, for some reason, this makes me extremely popular with teh women (go figure ), so I don't think I'll start caring anytime soon

[Kokomoxcvcv]

Perhaps the women think that if you don't care about other people, you don't really care too much about them either (though that may be true in plenty of cases ).

[fhutiussk]

Originally posted by Dis
that's it I think. I think I remember that. Oh, ok... carry on then . Been a while since I thought about that.

Thanks Richelieu if this is what you are referring to.

[jamisi]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Human beings are basically social animals. We tend to be the most miserable when we're by ourselves.

Good first steps.

[Greapyjeory]

To answer for inquring minds, we dont move around alot i am originaly from san antonio tx live in universal city tx with tuber, he is originally from utah, but moved down to texas for me. My jobs have been th things that get me out of texas. For 13 weeks at a time i was gone for the last two years but home for a month and a half then gone again. But anyway, last trip took me to florence where lancer is from, met him when me and a girlfriend went to the casino he worked at. Missed Franky in hawaii by a few weeks, and when in nevada to far away from vegas to see ya dis. Tuber is antisocial but im getting used to his ways. Some times people can be annoying and i get to where i want to be left alone. But with my job i have to interact with new people everyday.

[jgztw2es]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Tuber is a heritic Mormon? For those in the know, I'm a Jack Mormon .

Definition 2 or 3 is closest.

ACK!

[Vcwdldva]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It could have been about my (at the time) girlfriend's cat dying, come to think of it. She only had him for like a month and he got sick and died. That sounds like it. But i'm not going to be assertive about it now!

[Progniusis]

Originally posted by Pekka
Richeliu, hey no problem. This seems rather interesting to me though. What I see is a case where usually intelligent people fall into a trap, that is, a huge analysis on themselves. And I just don't know a simple case where that has ever lead to any positive thoughts as a result I'm thinking that analyzing yourself without any exterior help is ultimately hopeless. Kind of like Quantum theory - as far as i understand it - where observing changes the state of the observee. (note to KH: i wont use this analogy ever again. I promise.)

You might feel down, but you know there's something you can't get a hold of, why your feelings are acting up this way. That's a big one. Hard as i try I can't figure out why i feel the way i feel. Also: I like to think of myself as being very rational and this is a double edged sword. On the one side i get that i'm out of my natural element. I just don't deal well with or understand my own emotions. On the other side, it frustrates the hell out of me that i can't think my way out of this this.

Just do me a favour, don't do what some people do and go find answers in weird places, like drugs, marginal religions (or even big ones), cuckoo philosophies etc. These people change their set of thoughts every other week and they are intense about it all the time. The seekers who never stop seeking, but seems to be unhappy at all times. You're too late on that one... kinda.
First of all, i'm not religious at all, so that's not going to happen. I've experimented a bit with drugs when i was a teenager and haven't had any in roughly 20 years. I'm not saying i wouldn't have some pot to relax at some point but i just can't see myself being any kind of a heavy user.
I also haven't fallen for any of those suckoo philosophies as far as i can tell, but I've already taken a couple of "those weekend personnal development courses" and i am planning on taking at least one more by the end of the month. I'll tell you more about that below.

I can't help you, but you just have to come terms with yourself and the seek you are on.. about who you are, how it relates to things around you etc... most people don't think about this stuff actively.
...

These are very interesting questions, but what's fighting you is these negative feelings, so for example where I'm happy thinking about these things, on a journey, you get negative feelings for some reason and they tend to dominate, so there's a fundamental difference. Absolutely. But let me ask you: is your attitude towards these things the result of a decision or does it come naturally? Do you see a challenge where i see only an obstacle because you decide that it's a challenge or does it come naturally?

It really might be something physiological too. Yep. There is something there. And again, it's another area of my life where i just can't understand why i feel the way i feel. I do know better. And yet...

Don't be stigmatized by seeking some help. It only means you want to do something about it. most people keep sitting home and be all upset about these things. So you're already ahead in many aspects, and as such, you should have great chances of being able to get your feelings and emotions into check, where they come in play when the time and situation is right, and nto just randomly and dominate. There it is, in one sentence. The ultimate goal.


Once again, Thanks Pekka.

[XzBZB2UV]

Here is an example of how I'd deal in a situation where I get, say, scared:

I feel getting scared. Not a nice feeling. In fact, quite difficult to deal with. So, I kick myself to think why am I afraid? I realize, that being scared is just a way for my body to prepare me to face a possible dangerous situation. That's all it is, and adrenaline might be pumping and my body isn't handling it well. Why is my stomach hurting, as in I might have diarrhea? Blood is pumping out of my stomach, because if this was the olden days and I got a blade in my stomach, it would be bad, so my body is protecting me from the worst and getting that blood out of there.

So things are happening, that's why I might feel a bit cold etc. Then I realize, that this preparation, even though it feels akward, it will allow me to function superbly, should I be in trouble soon.

Now I feel a bit better and I try to figure out why am I sensing danger.. etc. That's just dealing with the feeling, and once you know what's going on, you are already dealing with it and automatically feel 'better', as in on top of it.

So, if there was a dangerous situation, I'm more likely to function properly now, instead of choking. In fact, as being interested in everything and not assigning values to things, at this point I usually become eager to face the danger. As in, 'I'm 110% now, I'm prepared, even though this feels akward, this is what happens when mother nature pumps you up for anything and everything... I'm more than I was 5 minutes ago, ****, I'm a superhuman!'.

So somehow from feeling akward and a bit sick, I start to feel actually pretty damn good, ready and all taht stuff. However, then I also think I'm insane, because there was no real danger, as in, what am I doing? Being superhuman, ready for.. what?! But then I kind of think that's funny, and insane people always win over the 'boring people', well, that's what I'd like to think

[mireOpekrhype]

Originally posted by Oerdin
WTF Pekka? JM

[foltdan]

That's right, I guess. But that's just analyzing why you are feeling some things.

Scary feeling, danger? that's easy.

What about feeling, sad, generally bad etc? Things I think you are going through? That's a different beast. A lot more complex.

Can you control your feelings, or direct them somehow, fi you know why you are feeling them? You knwo you are having misplaced feelings, so .. even if you knew where they came from, could you direct them by convincing yourself otherwise?

Maybe, maybe not. That's why I chose to not give any values to feelings, and embrace different feelings, like being angry.

What people do in today's society is letting us down. Society pressures you to not show anger. Especially in Asian cultures, do not show frustration or anger if you can avoid it.

Well, you're effectively repressing your own feelings then. You know when you are angry, there's lots of energy, if you could just release that pressure, I don't care how you do it, by screaming, running, doing something.. you know you will feel better afterwards? You might feel sad, remorse, or just completely relaxed, but that's what happens after you have released that pressure. The point is, you feel something else afterwards. It will shift from anger to something else, we know this happens, even to emotionally impotent people.

So I'd say challenge these things. Don't be embarrased of these things, but of course don't take your angry feelings on some random person walking down the street .

Challenge the sad feeling. So you are feeling sad now. How does it feel? Is it always the same, how is it now? don't think it as negative or positive necessarily all the time. If you can't figure out the source of your feeling, which is difficult, just think about it in other terms. You associate it with negative and bad. Why?

A lot of it is also fear of feeling sad. Fear of not being able to control yourself. Why would you want to control yourself ?It's not like you're going to axe someone to death, right?.. Right? So why do you want to control yourself?

Are you giving the feeling too much power by thinking it dominates you and there's nothing you can do to it? Well, there's tons of things and I bet you have dealt with many questions, but just remember that what they will do is give you new ways of thinking about stuff, maybe new thinking patterns... it's like any debate, issue or thing; are you asking the right questions? What do you REALLY want to know? Challenge it all, and remember, avoid the other trap in challenging, which is that everythinfg becomes uncertain, and thus you can not knwo anything for sure, and then everythign is just a big blur, and worth nothing

But, do note, I am not depressed, or feeling ill, so I can not totally relate to your situation or help you, but I can give you discussion, I can help you challenge what you think, so maybe you can see it from other perspectives.

The difference between being afraid of death and not being afraid of it is only a different pattern of thinking.

[BenBoobmers]

And here's one thought I think you might find of interest.. we as a society label you to be ill, if you are depressed. There's something wrong with you. You are not being normal.

What does that even mean? From the 1700s, the punishment from crime started to focus on the mind instead of the body, since we started thinking we can fix broken minds.

But what that really meant was to normalize the society, so that everyone is kind of like the same. Acceptable, no tall grass.

Of course we can see clearly psychotic behaviour etc, dangerous to other people, but in your case, do you see yourself as broken, and you need to be fixed, and if so, why? Why are you broken? Your mind is being dominated by misplaced feelings, so how does that relate to there being something wrong with you? The only way I agree that there might be something wrong is possible chemical imbalances, but thsoe can be fixed with medication.

Outside that.. you aren't broken and there's nothing fundamental wrong. You might be struggling with some thoughts, but we can always diagnose you to be a frog with a bump on their back. So what does that mean? It's just a diagnosis, a word for the situation. So, unless you're psychotic, I don't see a big problem that can't be solved, or a reason why you shouldn't be able to enjoy things normally. Just don't submit to the idea of 'being broken' and all that. What you might need is some alternative ideas, and in case of some chemical thing, well then you need subscription drugs or something. Not a big deal.

[GZFL2tDA]

Personally, I'd rather be depressed and alone than read all of that........

ACK!

[antiggill]

Happy B-day. Sucks that you have it during a week when most folks are away on vacation.

[Tw1anJOO]

Richelieu, well, I have some recommended reading to you. It's not something that might help you, but then again, it's something that definitely will give you new perspective. Please, come along and let me give you some idea what I'm after, and I'll do it by giving you some of my background so you know how to take this:

The reason why I'm interested in this stuff (human mind, especially things such as persuation, manipulation etc.) is because I'm doing my work in IT security, hopefully as researcher soon. My field specializes in attacks that are against the users of technology. Not the technology, but the users. This includes skilled manipulation etc. So human behaviour is interesting ot me naturally and professionally. I'm not an expert though, I'm definitely not traditionally schooled, and I take only few things in the whole field (such as the art of persuasion, deception etc.).

So one thing I've studied is surveillance, quite a lot in fact. Surveillance is 99% about control. It's got very little to do with getting crime on tape. It's almost like a by product. It aims at social control. You see a CCTV or something, you think you MIGHT be watched, thus you alter your behaviour. Or you think you see surveillance, there doesn't even really have to be any. So you go on about your day like a nice citizen, nto causing any trouble, most likely. Who did it? you did it. You did it to yourself.

So I'm interested in control, power etc. People can be, and are dominated by ideas that makes it easier to .. govern a mass of people etc. This is only natural, if it wasn't so, there would nto be control.

It is important to note, that the only way to control you is by making you control yourself. But there's lots of things how discourses are born. How do we know what we know? If we went to Mars, and there was another civilization, ti would look VERY different, yes? There would be things we don't understand, concepts we are not familiar with. Their discourse is very different. So why is it? How did their reality form?

The point is, if you can create discourse, or at least limit it, you are all powerful. There is no greater power. If you can decide what people can think, how they conceptualize things, you control all the outcomes.

So.. that's about power and stuff, however, when you start to recognize these signs, you suddenly feel more free. That's because you are not controlled by what ever school of thought. I mean, when a kid is born, they go to school, etc. They are taught stuff. That stuff is ALWAYS stuff about how they can act in our society, right? Not much outside that.. so, everyone is schooled from young age.

Why do people feel guilty? Why do people feel, that when they didn't work the extra time today, and others did, that they are somehow guilty, lazy etc? Why do people equate their worth to how much they work, or even better, how much they sweat during the work? This is all protestant work ethic, and it has been pounded on our heads from our birth, we don't even notice it. Of course you feel guilty.

There was even a great line in one Finnish TV program, where the cop told someone, that it's great to be a cop in Finland, because people have the urge to admit they are guilty. They have the urge, the basic need, to admit that they are guilty. Protestant ethic. It wasn't always like this. As in, before this ethic, it wasn't like this. This is man created stuff. So now that you know, why would you feel guilty? I know you will, but you can deal with it, and blame some other people for it Get over it.

My point is, when you really think about that stuff, maybe read few books about it (history), you will start how people can be and are controlled, from within. This is no conspiracy or necessarily evil stuff. It's just the way it goes. But if you see it, you are free from it, and way ahead of many people, who are feeling guilty for no good reason at all. Punishment by the self.

Other thoughts, like the urge to confess... we have this idea... that truth shall set us free. Right? Why is that? There is ALWAYS a setting where it takes place.. it is when the one who has more power asks you to confess, it is only then when it will set you free. And it always has a stake, as in, you will get in trouble for it. And then somehow telling the truth will benefit you? Get it? No ****ing way. But that's an idea, that dates back a LOOONG time, and it's all about control.

If truth shall set us free, then why does my boss keep silent? Why is it always me who has to confess, what about my peers etc? That's not how it works So.. get over that one as well. The truth will not set you free, it'll get you into trouble.

Wow, now I went on some weird ramblings. But the whole idea is to.. give you ideas, just random ideas, that there's many sides to things, some of them are created by man, and we do not recognize it. And we control our own behaviour according to those 'rules', that don't even exist, we are limiting ourselves, and even feeling guilty, bad, sad, what ever. For what? For nothing.

So good reading would be Madness and Civilization: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason (Michel Foucault), The Birth of the Clinic: An Archaeology of Medical Perception (same author), Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison (again the same..) etc.. These are all French originally, so if you can understand French, it's better that way.

What is interesting to me also, and for you it might be as well, to expand our discourse. To know what we don't know, maybe just about ourselves. you know most people introduce themselves, "Frank, 39 years old, taxi driver". That's it. That's all they've got. A bit boring, yes? But why don't they go into identity crisis? Simply, because they do not think about it. Their minds do not force them to go forward, they just think about ti 1 minute and give up. You can't give up, can you? You just think about these things, about yourself, and since you aren't coming up with lots of stuff that would satisfy you, it has negative impact on you. Of course the trick is not to think about it, be happy, eat hamburgers and masturbate regularly, but that doesn't satisfy everyone. But that's one reason, if you think why other people can be happy and enjoy things and you can't, why is that? Well, that's one reason, they don't think about it. And if they did, they'd prolly kill themselves or something.

[iuopyra]

I feel very flattered that I have managed to have a deleterious effect on someone's mental health

[Yessaniloas]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Personally, I'd rather be depressed and alone than read all of that........

ACK! Your loss Tuber.