[Hbkj89D2]

Hybrid cars FTW....I am seriously thinking now when I get a new car it should be hybrid

You need to watch more Top Gear, a Hybrid sticker doesn't make it get a better mileage than a diesel.

[Terinalo]

You need to watch more Top Gear, a Hybrid sticker doesn't make it get a better mileage than a diesel.

Maybe not - but its a heck of a lot more environmentally friendly. Diesel is one of the most evil fuels out there.........

[lungumnentibe]

Maybe not - but its a heck of a lot more environmentally friendly. Diesel is one of the most evil fuels out there.........

Not when it's a massive V8 hybrid truck...

I'm not joking either. That's what was on top gear.

[leijggeds]

What spooked me was that I had a nightmare the night prior to the news about the world running out of oil and it being televised all over the news. Scared me a little when I read the headlines on CNN.com that afternoon.

The oil companies and the government really, really need to start investing large sums of money into dealing with the issue otherwise the $%@# is really going to hit the fan. I could care less what the estimates are of when we will run out of oil, something needs to be done about it now before we discover it is too late considering we are so dependent on it.

[Chooriwrocaxz]

What spooked me was that I had a nightmare the night prior to the news about the world running out of oil and it being televised all over the news. Scared me a little when I read the headlines on CNN.com that afternoon.

The oil companies and the government really, really need to start investing large sums of money into dealing with the issue otherwise the $%@# is really going to hit the fan. I could care less what the estimates are of when we will run out of oil, something needs to be done about it now before we discover it is too late considering we are so dependent on it.

Or could it be that all things are cyclical? I think it's been shown that adjusted for inflation the all time high of Oil is over $100. The point being we've been here before, in a inflationary secular bear market for commodities. Gold has more than tripled in 5 years other metals have exploded too like copper up 5 times in the same time frame. Up until 2003 Oil, Gold, etc. had been in a long bear market today they are storming away but all things being equal when the time comes I'm sure we'll see $15 oil again. As Zoolook said the dollars value has a lot to do with this.

[NickGrass]

I think I'm the only one that could be "happy" for this.
4Runner 2002 - 60 lts = Bs. 0,097*60 (5,64 Bs.) which is equal to $0,0451*60 ($2,706)
95 octanes.

I didn't think that the gas was so expensive in others countries. Here the ppl doesn't really care about how many miles per litre does the car. (Yeah, we are using a lot of gasoline)

[Obebtetibre]

Or could it be that all things are cyclical? I think it's been shown that adjusted for inflation the all time high of Oil is over $100. The point being we've been here before, in a inflationary secular bear market for commodities. Gold has more than tripled in 5 years other metals have exploded too like copper up 5 times in the same time frame. Up until 2003 Oil, Gold, etc. had been in a long bear market today they are storming away but all things being equal when the time comes I'm sure we'll see $15 oil again. As Zoolook said the dollars value has a lot to do with this.

Are you, in any way, serious?

[Chooriwrocaxz]

Are you, in any way, serious?

Totally! Unless you are suggesting that there is 7 times more oil consumption now than 8 years ago. Look how much supply has increased since 2003 compared to the increase in consumption they kept up fairly well it's not like there is any real shortage. As I said all major commodities are in a secular bear market, (it's even hitting the edibles) Gold, Oil, Platinum they've all recently hit all time highs. So maybe we won't see $15 oil but we'll certainly see it tumble down well $50 again just not for some time. But there's no magic wand the government can wave and make these prices go away, well unless they want to up interest rates 10 or 15 percent and collapse the US economy.

[YTmWSOA5]

gold hit $859 per troy - which is an all time high....

[Obebtetibre]

Totally! Unless you are suggesting that there is 7 times more oil consumption now than 8 years ago. Look how much supply has increased since 2003 compared to the increase in consumption they kept up fairly well it's not like there is any real shortage. As I said all major commodities are in a secular bear market, (it's even hitting the edibles) Gold, Oil, Platinum they've all recently hit all time highs. So maybe we won't see $15 oil but we'll certainly see it tumble down well $50 again just not for some time. But there's no magic wand the government can wave and make these prices go away, well unless they want to up interest rates 10 or 15 percent and collapse the US economy.

Ah, you are kidding!
The price of oil is a function of what the oil companies are prepared to pay the producers. It doesn't need much of a perceived (and it is a real concern) shortfal in available oil for companies to raise their bids by a large extent - after all, it's a relatively low proportion of what you actually pay at the pumps and they'll just be passing on the costs. As long as they're making a profit they don't care what you have to pay.
As demand in the Asian countries, primarily China and India, increases as they become industrialised, demand, and hence price, can only be expected to increase as the supply starts to dwindle.
The primary reason for the rare metals to be reaching such high levels is as a hedge against the US going into a recession (which looks a virtual certainty now, only real question is how bad it's going to be and how badly it affects the global economy) and as a result of increasing demand, with relatively stable or declining production, driving the price up as industries get what they need.
I must admit, I laughed out loud about the economy bit - it's been in trouble for some time but the policies of the current administration, with their internal and HUGE external deficit seem determined to destroy the US as THE economic, political and military superpower.

Anyway, as I do not expect us to agree, it'll be interesting to revisit this thread in 6 months or a year and see what happens.

[Chooriwrocaxz]

Ah, you are kidding!

No I'm not I'm being realistic and coming at a subject from position of understanding rather than spouting wild conspiracy theories like you've done.

The price of oil is a function of what the oil companies are prepared to pay the producers. It doesn't need much of a perceived (and it is a real concern) shortfal in available oil for companies to raise their bids by a large extent - after all, it's a relatively low proportion of what you actually pay at the pumps and they'll just be passing on the costs. As long as they're making a profit they don't care what you have to pay.
As demand in the Asian countries, primarily China and India, increases as they become industrialised, demand, and hence price, can only be expected to increase as the supply starts to dwindle.
The primary reason for the rare metals to be reaching such high levels is as a hedge against the US going into a recession (which looks a virtual certainty now, only real question is how bad it's going to be and how badly it affects the global economy)

Fascinating theory but look at these charts from http://futures.tradingcharts.com/



Do you see a pattern? Some times a picture's worth a thousand words. As I said the commodities have been in a secular bull market for 5 years now. The new highs in Gold have little to do with a coming recession unless you are suggesting people have been worrying about this recession for 5 years. Gold is a hedge against inflation, not recession. You are right though we aren't going to agree if you refuse to look at the actual facts of the issue we are talking about.

To see Zoolooks point compare an inverted chart of the US Index against those charts from 2003 to now.

[Obebtetibre]

And how long has the US been incurring a MASSIVE overseas debt? Hmmm, around the same period you show in your examples. How long have the middle east countries been increasing their GDP for - hmmm, effectively the same period.
I'm just going to have a look for the IRON and/or STEEL prices - I know that scrap, in particular has gone up a HUGE amount in the last decade or so - primarily driven by demand in China, India and the Arabic countries. Hmmm, not as easy to find as I would have thought - seems there wasn't a true standard price structure - perhaps you'd have more success?


Damned if these conspiracy theories come from - if anything it's you who seem to believe in them - except the iron ore seems rather dodgy...
Me, I just assume that most "businessmen" fall into two main catagories a/ out to screw everyone for whatever they can get and b/ people who care about their consumers, their staff and their environment - however both may be forced to pay more than they want, to ensure supply of essential materials, than they wish, thus driving up the prices. If the suppliers are in the former catagory, of course, that just makes things worse.

[Emedgella]

I remember when oil hit $50 a barrel people here were saying it couldn't possibly stay that high and would drop back down to $35 within a year. Also, the prices of copper etc rise with oil because you need oil to extract, refine and deliver it. Gold goes up because people are jittery about the economy (due in part to the price of oil) and want a safe investment. Everything is related to oil. Oil's not a small part of the bigger picture, it IS the bigger picture.

[Obebtetibre]

The cost of oil does, indeed, have a flow on affect.
However, I still would say that the increased global demand, faltering US economy (this is probably a large part of the reason for the increases as the suppliers wish to maintain their returns in real, global, terms) and it's global market affects, loss of faith in the financial institutions and their poor returns, and concerns for the future supplies.

[LsrSRVxR]

Who´s laughing now huh ?
huh ?
The Amish people with their horse powered carriages.


btw on a serious note,
This was bound to happen, and it´s what i´ve been saying for a while now.
Now the people with their big ass gas guzzling 200+ HP cars are the ones who are going to really feel the money being drained out of their pockets.

[Vipvlad]

faltering US economy .

What? Growth is in the 3% range, inflation is low, and unemployment is low as well...how is the economy faltering? Oh, its not.

[Obebtetibre]

What? Growth is in the 3% range, inflation is low, and unemployment is low as well...how is the economy faltering? Oh, its not.

Actually, it is - you should be keeping up more - heck the unemployment rate figures were just released and they're up significantly even as the increase in employment numbers is below that required to continue the growth needed.
Haven't got the data for your latest growth but even 3% isn't really anything to be happy about with your competing countries pushing 10% or more - heck, even we're around 3% and we're considered to be doing badly!
Low inflation seems like a good thing -stable prices and all that but when the rest of the trading world is higher than that, it's effectively de-flation - remember my recession comments? However, I expect you're going to be seeing a lot of inflationary pressures being put on your economy as the increase in fuel bills starts to bite with business overheads that get passed onto the consumers. This isn't good, though, as the consumer will be able to purchase less, further putting stress on manufacturing, etc, putting more pressure towards the "R" word. Either way, the guy in the street gets screwed so it's up to you guys to be keeping up with as much as you can.

It's still the ols story of AMerica sneezing and the rest of the world gets a cold - but if China plays hardball and stops artificially holding the Yuan low, or dumps some of it's huge US dollar reserves, all bets are off and we're ALL in trouble.

[Emedgella]

What? Growth is in the 3% range, inflation is low, and unemployment is low as well...how is the economy faltering? Oh, its not.

When was the last time you actually read any business news?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p....RM&refer=home

[Vipvlad]

Actually, it is - you should be keeping up more - heck the unemployment rate figures were just released and they're up significantly even as the increase in employment numbers is below that required to continue the growth needed.
Haven't got the data for your latest growth but even 3% isn't really anything to be happy about with your competing countries pushing 10% or more - heck, even we're around 3% and we're considered to be doing badly!
Low inflation seems like a good thing -stable prices and all that but when the rest of the trading world is higher than that, it's effectively de-flation - remember my recession comments? However, I expect you're going to be seeing a lot of inflationary pressures being put on your economy as the increase in fuel bills starts to bite with business overheads that get passed onto the consumers. This isn't good, though, as the consumer will be able to purchase less, further putting stress on manufacturing, etc, putting more pressure towards the "R" word. Either way, the guy in the street gets screwed so it's up to you guys to be keeping up with as much as you can.

It's still the ols story of AMerica sneezing and the rest of the world gets a cold - but if China plays hardball and stops artificially holding the Yuan low, or dumps some of it's huge US dollar reserves, all bets are off and we're ALL in trouble.

China's 10% growth is due to a number of reasons, but most of all because its becoming an industrialized nation. We experienced growth in these percentages when the US became industrialized, not to mention, 3% of our current GDP is a great figure than 10% of theirs.

Also the 3% inflation isn't deflation in the slightest, they are trying to find to the target rate for inflation to coincide with the increase in GDP and population, and I believe they are trying to aim it at around 3%

[Chooriwrocaxz]

And how long has the US been incurring a MASSIVE overseas debt? Hmmm, around the same period you show in your examples.

Exactly so you are basically agreeing with what Zoolook and I are saying, that in large part a weak dollar caused by monetary inflation is resulting in a bull market for commodities.