[crestosssa]

in before the racist accusations

[OccabsLam]

I'm curious as to how you could read racism into this. As to what people valued in 1500 or whenever, I suggest consulting actual texts from the time, and avoiding broad generalizations. PoMo and other perversions of the arts may be partly the result of scientism, but the more likely culprits to my way of thinking are mass communications and the increased availability of education. By-the-by, Hera, if you're interested in this sort of thing, try G.K. Chesterton's "Orthodoxy"--and no, it's not about my specific brand of Christianity. I don't know if I agree with his conclusions (he's a little glib for my taste), but he's funny and says interesting things.

[byncnombmub]

I'm curious as to how you could read racism into this.

No Black people are mentioned in the text.




Also Asher has a good sense of humour and DaShi played along with it.

As to what people valued in 1500 or whenever, I suggest consulting actual texts from the time, and avoiding broad generalizations. PoMo and other perversions of the arts may be partly the result of scientism, but the more likely culprits to my way of thinking are mass communications and the increased availability of education. By-the-by, Hera, if you're interested in this sort of thing, try G.K. Chesterton's "Orthodoxy"--and no, it's not about my specific brand of Christianity. I don't know if I agree with his conclusions (he's a little glib for my taste), but he's funny and says interesting things.

Thanks for the recommendation!

[aLZ9zKsO]

Tolkien was a racist, so posting an article talking about his works makes you racist.

His racism against Orcs is truly appalling. I shudder at the thought of how many young Orc children have been scarred for life by his vile characterizations of them.

[effenseshoora]

It's not like the Orcs were good at sports or anything.

[tinetttstation]

http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/th/more/548/



Do you think Michael is right or did people use intelligence=worth even in previous centuries? Also what about his speculation on the effects of this change on the arts and sciences?

This post seems interesting and rings true to a extent but I'm very sceptical about the shifts supposed effects on art and even science. They may well be there I'm just not convinced its self apparent they are a important factor.

How do you define moral worth? I used to consider it purely on in-group pragmatic concerns, but have begun to shift to the possession of a soul (if I can just get myself to really believe in God and Christ).

I think that man is naturally egalitarian, as they don't wish to be dominated. Darwin and Neitzche are exceptions. So I don't think intelligence is a moral worth.

[autolubitelone]

Asher is absolutely right. The dark-skinned men of the South/East were evil while the pale-skinned men of the North/West were good... that's racist!

[kertionderf]

Don't forget about all those Black Riders chasing down the nice white folk on their walks through the forest.

[Bridgester]

The Evil Men sided with The Enemy. Guess their skin color and/or eye characteristics.

I'm referring to the Evil Men, not the other races.

The men of the South/East where absolutely not characterised as evil, but misled and even bound by a sense of honor. Also they are described as swarthy, which can be interpreted as anything from Black to Mediterranean White.

You also completely ignore that many Numenorians sided with Sauron and his predecessor long before the South/Eastern people.

Don't forget about all those Black Riders chasing down the nice white folk on their walks through the forest.

There is no reference to Nazgûl's appearance before they where twisted by Sauron's influence and their own vices. This is like saying the charcater of Star Wars is racist because Darth Vader's armour is black.

Black is associated with evil and White with good in Western culture, it has nothing to do with skin colour, deal with it.

[Sanremogirl]

You also completely ignore that many Numenorians sided with Sauron and his predecessor long before the South/Eastern people.

Yes, the so-called "Black" Númenóreans...

[iodillalm]

So your defense is that Western culture is inherently racist? I don't disagree, but I fail to see how that excuses Tolkien's racism.

[KraskiNetu]

I think that man is naturally egalitarian, as they don't wish to be dominated. Darwin and Neitzche are exceptions. So I don't think intelligence is a moral worth.

Yes but the real dilemma presented by him is why treat humans any different from other animals/beings. I assume you being Christian would say their possession of a soul is the reason?

[lXvtm0ox]

Yes but the real dilemma presented by him is why treat humans any different from other animals/beings. I assume you being Christian would say their possession of a soul is the reason?

Yes, of course. I'm not saying that social norms are morals, but society considers them such. Only the highly intelligent will consider intelligence a moral.

[inmeirulez]

Well I hope you can agree he is no more racist than Western culture in general.

Yes, we can agree on that, which makes Tolkien really ****ing racist.

[Mjxhnapi]

Burned things turn black, the night is black, ect. And if any other colour except green was used they would have ended up "offending" some other group. The possible exception to this is green or blue, but even then you would offend green and blue eyed people (the vast majority of "Whites" have brown eyes)

Wait, who are the orange people? Who are the purple people?

[steansathtpos]

And the white troops are really Maori on the inside. Not racist.

[BEKREUNSEPBERw]

Wait, who are the orange people? Who are the purple people?

Very dark skin can seem pruple.



Guidos.

[12Jasoumemoobia]

Oh, but guidos deserve it.

[Overlord]

http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/th/more/548/



Do you think Michael is right or did people use intelligence=worth even in previous centuries? Also what about his speculation on the effects of this change on the arts and sciences?

This post seems interesting and rings true to a extent but I'm very sceptical about the shifts supposed effects on art and even science. They may well be there I'm just not convinced its self apparent they are a important factor.

How do you define moral worth? I used to consider it purely on in-group pragmatic concerns, but have begun to shift to the possession of a soul (if I can just get myself to really believe in God and Christ).

I think things have changed greatly in recent decades to see intelligence as worth far more than ever in the past. Like you, I am skeptical about whether this has truly affected art & science, but I certainly see "fashionable" demonstrations of intelligence to be increasingly common. It is certainly an interesting article, thanks for posting it.

[HoniSoniproca]

a all white officer corps

Who all got blown up in the first Death Star.

And who blew up the second Death Star? A black man.

George Lucas