[provigil]

Keep in min Trooper...you didn't mention any signs of aggression towards humans...and most people did say that she shouldn't be cautioned around children UNLESS she had shown signs of HA...which until just now...you didn't mention, so you have to understand why people reacted the way they did.

As for telling my cousin not my sister to watch her son, yes she does need to watch him-after any dog of any breed has done that-you do not leave your child alone with them period. ( My thoughts) NO child should not be left unsupervised with ANY dog EVER...not just any dog who has caused harm to another living thing. Children under the age of 12 are involved in over 75% of all dog attacks, and account for around 85% of dog bite related fatalities.

This is not because dogs target children...it's because children cannot be trusted to know how to behave appropriately around dogs. Many that DO "know better" will "test" the dog when no authority is around.

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

Also somwhere around 85% of all dog attacks were perpetrated by a dog in the household of the victim, or a dog that is known to the victim (like a neighbor's or family member's dog). This just goes to illustrate the astounding number of people that think it's okay to leave kids and dogs alone together.

[janeseymore09092]

I bet you post on pb-smiles, dontja?

I was raised around this breed, and not once have I ever encounted this where it got out of hand Then you weren't raised around the right kinda bulldog

[royarnekara]

Okay first of all- No-one knew there was a bone in the yard-its not my house , nor my yard, so therefore I will not do random checks to see what lingers.

If your dog is in the yard, you need to check. If not, then it is definately the owners of any dogs in the yard who need to check.

Second off yes if that wouldve been Trooper I would have put him down at that current moment, considering when Hedi was in attack mode she would not release. in order to save the other dog which was part pit. It has nothing to do with not knowing this breed, I have done my research just like many of you all.

That breaks my brain. Why would you put down your dog to save another dog in the act of fighting? A) you don't know there wil be a death until all is said and done and B)its your dog! Aren't you supposed to be as loyal to it as it is to you? It doesn't matter if the dog will release willingly. Many dogs will not. You use a break stick or what you can find to force a release.

Another thing Trooper has a damn good home, hell to be honest he has it made better than most humans- so dont preach to me telling that I need to find my boy a new home. Since I do not agree with what took place that day.

If you have a problem with DA, think DA and HA are related, do not own a break stick and do not know how to break up a fight when a terrier won't let go then you really do need to either educate yourself or rehome your dog.

I was raised around this breed, and not once have I ever encounted this where it got out of hand-another thing with Hedi being Pit has nothing to do with how I feel she couldve been a freakin ankle biter and I would still feel the same.

You got lucky to not see any incidents of this intensity. They are quite common. If you intend to keep bully breed dogs then it really is a matter of time until you see an incident that is quite intense. You can't count on luck to hold out forever.

As for telling my cousin not my sister to watch her son, yes she does need to watch him-after any dog of any breed has done that-you do not leave your child alone with them period. ( My thoughts)

You now see the dog differently, thats understandable. But the fact of the matter is that most dogs that have killed other dogs and small animals have never and will never show human aggression. The dogs that have shown DA and HA are simply badly bred and mentally unsound and should be PTS.

Unless the dog has shown a lack of tolerance with kids, aggression toward a person or is allowed to be with the child unsupervised there really isn't anything to worry about beyond normal dog-child safety rules.

Another thing Hedi does direct aggression towards humans. So how the hell is that in the wrong of me to tell her to watch her son???? I think its more of a concern for her childs well being.

Are you saying the dog redirects DA onto humans or that she has other aggression issues?

And yes it is the owners fault-but some owners its seems dont think it could happen to them. I told her was she sure about allowing them all to be outside at the same time.. and looked what happened.

But you all do what most of you all do best , as I have sit and watched most attack me for my own thoughts and view on this-its perfectly. I was there I know how the dog is-before this even took place.

No one was attacking you, just expressing differing opinions and giving advice to you regarding the breed. The way you say you knew the dog before the incident makes me wonder if this dog has some serious behavior problems not related to DA. If thats what it is and thats why you formed the opinion you have then please explain to us what the dogs other problems are.

Me all in blue.

[LongaDonga]

Your tainted view is a load of shit and there is no reason the dog should pay for your ignorance.

Painfully blunt yet true.

Okay I can understand a yard accident, but leaving a bunch of dogs, especially this breed type, unsupervised loose in a yard is 150% human error. Where is the common sense? Sadly nowhere...

Even if Heidi is HA, that still does not link it to her doing what a bulldog does to another dog! It is a seperate issue alltogether and should be addressed properly with vet check, reputable behaviorist, etc.

Not oh look she killed another dog she must be vicious. The two are not related because this breed was selectively bred for dog on dog combat.

If you can't deal with it, find your dog a truly bulldog saavy home and step away from the breed entirely. Hell step away from dogs because any dog can have DA. That does NOT make it a bad dog. It is not that hard to manage a DA dog.

[toreesi]

So, if an APBT displays acts of what it was BRED to do, you think the dog should be killed? What's the point of even having them, then?

[18holesin]

Okay first of all- No-one knew there was a bone in the yard-its not my house , Nobody said you did. nor my yard, so therefore I will not do random checks to see what lingers. Then you're asking for trouble at any given time. Dogs don't tend to share resources, toys, or bones. This is the higher level of responsibility I am talking about in my first post. You're too lazy to do what it takes to own these dogs.

Second off yes if that wouldve been Trooper I would have put him down at that current moment, This proves you are oblivious to this breed, it's characteristics, and it's needs. This is a downright pathetic statement considering it wasn't the dogs fault. What a load of horse shit. considering when Hedi was in attack mode she would not release. Again, higher level of responsibility. Own a break stick and learn how to use it. in order to save the other dog which was part pit. It has nothing to do with not knowing this breed, Oh it has everything to do with knowing the breed. You obviously don't know squat about it either! I have done my research just like many of you all. It is painfully obvious this is either a lie, or you refuse to believe the facts you've researched, or your sources of research aren't worth a shit.

Another thing Trooper has a damn good home, Not really. He is in a home with an uneducated owner who refuses to acknowledge the breed for what it is and what it's tendencies are, and what it takes to keep the dog out of shitty situations, therefore eventually leading to the dog being PTS for no reason. hell to be honest he has it made better than most humans- That's not surprising. My dogs are also better than most humans. LOL so dont preach to me telling that I need to find my boy a new home. Oh there's no doubt you should find your dog a new home unless you want to dig your head out of your rectum and do a little learning of the facts about this breed. Since I do not agree with what took place that day. It's not about agreeing what took place that day. It's about seeing where the blame lies and it isn't with the dog. I hate to tell you but if your dog would have been out there it would have been right in the middle of the ruckus. So by your own admission your dog would now be dead. Again, do some real learning about the breed.

I was raised around this breed, I highly doubt that statement is true or you wouldn't be saying the stupid shit you're saying. and not once have I ever encounted this where it got out of hand Again I highly doubt you're telling the truth. If you're around these dogs long enough, you'll encounter a real scuffle. If you've done your research and are prepared though you will be able to handle it and get them separated with minimal damage to each other. -another thing with Hedi being Pit has nothing to do with how I feel she couldve been a freakin ankle biter and I would still feel the same. As I also stated in my first post. Any dogs would have fought over a bone. It is downright stupid to put a dog down for that reason. These are animals not people. They don't go by social laws and rights and wrongs. They do what comes naturally from instinct and that is protect resources and self.

As for telling my cousin not my sister to watch her son, yes she does need to watch him-after any dog of any breed has done that-you do not leave your child alone with them period. ( My thoughts) This is downright stupid.

Another thing Hedi does direct aggression towards humans. So how the hell is that in the wrong of me to tell her to watch her son???? I think its more of a concern for her childs well being. Now after the fact that people have pointed out your ignorant statement all of a sudden the dog redirects. I call bullshit.

And yes it is the owners fault-Damn right it is. but some owners its seems dont think it could happen to them. You mean like you because you refuse to check a yard for toys, bones, resources etc. I told her was she sure about allowing them all to be outside at the same time.. and looked what happened. She's an idiot who refused to listen and acknowledge safety. Nothing new with this breed.

But you all do what most of you all do best , as I have sit and watched most attack me for my own thoughts and view on this-its perfectly. That's because most of your views are downright pathetic. Killing a dog for being a dog is STUPID! Put your silly emotions aside and listen to what people are telling you. Quit with the know it all attitude and open your mind and expand your knowledge. I was there I know how the dog is-before this even took place. I don't know wtf this is supposed to mean, but honestly it has nothing to do with what happened in the yard. If the dog was already dog aggressive that just makes what happened even more inexcusable and downright ignorant.

Here ya go. Instead of a bunch of whining about it, why not do some reading and try to learn something. Read the replies in blue.

[PlayboyAtWork]

Edit title: "She displayed a breed trait."

[bmwservis]

Okay first of all- No-one knew there was a bone in the yard-its not my house , nor my yard, so therefore I will not do random checks to see what lingers.

Second off yes if that wouldve been Trooper I would have put him down at that current moment, considering when Hedi was in attack mode she would not release. in order to save the other dog which was part pit. It has nothing to do with not knowing this breed, I have done my research just like many of you all.
Are you saying you'd have put your dog down if he was in Daisy's place, or Heidi's? Confused here. I have an incredibly hard time understanding why people feel that if a dog is aggressive to another animal, that it's ground for euthanasia. They're dogs, it's what they do. If you expect your dog to never look sideways at another dog or animal, then you're living in a fantasy world and don't need a dog at all.

Another thing Trooper has a damn good home, hell to be honest he has it made better than most humans- so dont preach to me telling that I need to find my boy a new home. Since I do not agree with what took place that day.

I was raised around this breed, and not once have I ever encounted this where it got out of hand-another thing with Hedi being Pit has nothing to do with how I feel she couldve been a freakin ankle biter and I would still feel the same.
How can you have been raised around this breed and not encounter something like this? I was not raised around this breed and I am extremely careful when my girl is around other dogs, she's never unsupervised because I know what CAN happen. You must have saintly dogs if they've never scuffled.

As for telling my cousin not my sister to watch her son, yes she does need to watch him-after any dog of any breed has done that-you do not leave your child alone with them period. ( My thoughts)
No child should ever be left alone with a dog, regardless of breed, regardless if anything like this had happened before or not.

Another thing Hedi does direct aggression towards humans. So how the hell is that in the wrong of me to tell her to watch her son???? I think its more of a concern for her childs well being.
It's not wrong to tell her to supervise her son better, but it shouldn't be because of two dogs fighting. It should just be common sense to not leave a child with a dog. Give an example of how she directs her aggression to people, please.

And yes it is the owners fault-but some owners its seems dont think it could happen to them. I told her was she sure about allowing them all to be outside at the same time.. and looked what happened.

But you all do what most of you all do best , as I have sit and watched most attack me for my own thoughts and view on this-its perfectly. I was there I know how the dog is-before this even took place.

My comments in red.

[MormefWrarebe]

Most everyone else has been thoroughly covered.. so I'll ask, how do you know it wasn't Daisey who started it in the first place? I had the very same thing happen between a my GSD and my bulldog. The shepherd started it but the bulldog was ready to finish it.

How did Daisey die, anyway? Did she not go to a vet? Sorry if I missed that.

[Blacksheepaalredy]

ok I am Larry co-owner of Trooper. daisy did go to the vet. she had fluid buildup on her brain. 4 broken ribs, a punctured lung and lacerations to the neck. and to clear things up a little bit she did have a break stick after i gave it to her which the break stick broke in two (it was metal). her fault for not having one i know. but what jess was trying to say was after 10 minutes of trying to break them apart and heidi's repeated attacks on daisy her cousin her cousin finally got them apart. upon putting heidi in her cage everytime someone walked passed her cage she would growl, bark and try to chew through her cage several of the bars ended up bent or broken. it was like heidi went completely mad. i have seen dog agression before and this seemed far beyong DA. I do not know what came over her it was like she was a different dog even after the attack. as far as our decision that we would put the dog down. at the time thats the thought we had. would we have regretted it? most definitely. but as far as HA if our pit ever attacks anyone thats not doing harm to our home or us. another words completely unprovoked attack he will be put down. and for all you that do not agree shame on you. its this type of behavior that has caused our beloved pitbulls to get the bad rap they have. if you don't want to do anything to change their behavior than you are not doing the breed any good.

[skupaemauto]

If the dog attacked a human without a cause, I agree the dog definitely needs to be put down.

If the dog attacks a dog without a cause, no, I will not put that dog down.

Sounds like Heidi was still in the heat of the moment. Did she nip or bite anyone while she was broken off of the other dog? Did she re-direct at all?

Magnus and Hawken got into a yard accident. Now anytime I walk past Magnus with Hawken (well really any of the other males), Magnus goes nuts wanting to get to them. I keep him around. Why? Because he didn't re-direct on me when I broke the fight up, and has never shown any aggression toward me or any other humans. I just do my best to make sure he says properly contained at all times.

[Blacksheepaalredy]

she did not bite anyone. but i do believe if she had gottden out of her cage there is no doubt in my mind she would have come after someone. just by observing her behavior at the time. oh just to make you all feel better heidi did not get put down

[MormefWrarebe]

ok I am Larry co-owner of Trooper. daisy did go to the vet. she had fluid buildup on her brain. 4 broken ribs, a punctured lung and lacerations to the neck. and to clear things up a little bit she did have a break stick after i gave it to her which the break stick broke in two (it was metal). her fault for not having one i know. but what jess was trying to say was after 10 minutes of trying to break them apart and heidi's repeated attacks on daisy her cousin her cousin finally got them apart. upon putting heidi in her cage everytime someone walked passed her cage she would growl, bark and try to chew through her cage several of the bars ended up bent or broken. it was like heidi went completely mad. i have seen dog agression before and this seemed far beyong DA. I do not know what came over her it was like she was a different dog even after the attack. as far as our decision that we would put the dog down. at the time thats the thought we had. would we have regretted it? most definitely. but as far as HA if our pit ever attacks anyone thats not doing harm to our home or us. another words completely unprovoked attack he will be put down. and for all you that do not agree shame on you. its this type of behavior that has caused our beloved pitbulls to get the bad rap they have. if you don't want to do anything to change their behavior than you are not doing the breed any good.

Did she actually go after HUMANS? I mean, did she try to bite the people? Or was she just going bonkers "HEY, let me OUT!" Whenever a person went by because she wanted back after the dog..?

Just an odd note, I've never seen a metal breakstick..

Unprovoked attacks on other DOGS are not unusual for this breed, they are and and have been bred for 100's of years for dog on dog combat. So it is natural and you have to be aware it can happen at any time.

[royarnekara]

ok I am Larry co-owner of Trooper. daisy did go to the vet. she had fluid buildup on her brain. 4 broken ribs, a punctured lung and lacerations to the neck. and to clear things up a little bit she did have a break stick after i gave it to her which the break stick broke in two (it was metal). her fault for not having one i know. but what jess was trying to say was after 10 minutes of trying to break them apart and heidi's repeated attacks on daisy her cousin her cousin finally got them apart.
If the fight was properly broken up and the dogs properly contained there would have been no "repeated attacks".

upon putting heidi in her cage everytime someone walked passed her cage she would growl, bark and try to chew through her cage several of the bars ended up bent or broken. it was like heidi went completely mad. I do not know what came over her it was like she was a different dog even after the attack.

Has Heidi been to the vet for a thorough health exam including blood work to rule out some neurological or hormonal disorder being responsible for the sudden change?


i have seen dog agression before and this seemed far beyong DA.

Have you seen a pit fight? For the APBT thats dog aggressive this is the norm. That is what they were bred for. To fight hard, do damage and never give up. Pit fighting is illegal, but the fact of the matter is that the genetic code that gave the breed its traits is still in there and ferocity during a fight is natural to them.


as far as our decision that we would put the dog down. at the time thats the thought we had. would we have regretted it? most definitely. but as far as HA if our pit ever attacks anyone thats not doing harm to our home or us. another words completely unprovoked attack he will be put down. and for all you that do not agree shame on you. its this type of behavior that has caused our beloved pitbulls to get the bad rap they have. if you don't want to do anything to change their behavior than you are not doing the breed any good.

NO ONE said not to put down a HA dog. However, this may not be HA. It could simply be a health problem or a dog amped up after a fierce battle.

At this point, I am leaning toward the cousin and Trooper both rehoming their dogs as they seem very unprepared for the breed.

[Blacksheepaalredy]

ok I am Larry co-owner of Trooper. daisy did go to the vet. she had fluid buildup on her brain. 4 broken ribs, a punctured lung and lacerations to the neck. and to clear things up a little bit she did have a break stick after i gave it to her which the break stick broke in two (it was metal). her fault for not having one i know. but what jess was trying to say was after 10 minutes of trying to break them apart and heidi's repeated attacks on daisy her cousin her cousin finally got them apart. upon putting heidi in her cage everytime someone walked passed her cage she would growl, bark and try to chew through her cage several of the bars ended up bent or broken. it was like heidi went completely mad. i have seen dog agression before and this seemed far beyong DA. I do not know what came over her it was like she was a different dog even after the attack. as far as our decision that we would put the dog down. at the time thats the thought we had. would we have regretted it? most definitely. but as far as HA if our pit ever attacks anyone thats not doing harm to our home or us. another words completely unprovoked attack he will be put down. and for all you that do not agree shame on you. its this type of behavior that has caused our beloved pitbulls to get the bad rap they have. if you don't want to do anything to change their behavior than you are not doing the breed any good.

The break stick was a metal rod not a broom like jess had thought. she was on the porch when this happened and just thought it was a broom

[janeseymore09092]

I have dogs, that when in the heat of the moment, seem to loose their damn mind. I know this and work around it. Any slip-up is my fault, not the dogs.

[mikaelluioy]

But the whole time this was going on I looked at my Fiance' to only say ...if this was our boy I would shoot him... don't get me wrong I love Trooper to the moon and back yet I also know I could not allow him to attack another dog like that.. unless he was defending his-self

I'm so sorry you witnessed this. But to address this comment. Dog Aggression is common in APBTs and many other breeds. And a dog attacking another dog is no reason to kill a dog. Its nature, it can be prevented but at the end of the day its still nature. That is why when you have a DA dog, you have to keep them separeted.

When being in a multidog home, fights with happen whether the dogs are DA or not. If there is a high value item they will fight. A bone is a high value item.

Again so sorry you witnessed it but there was there was nothing you personally could do to stop it.

[MormefWrarebe]

she did not bite anyone. but i do believe if she had gottden out of her cage there is no doubt in my mind she would have come after someone. just by observing her behavior at the time. oh just to make you all feel better heidi did not get put down

Okay, if you feel she was truly being aggressive to people, there is no question she needs to be put down at all.

We posted at the same time so I did not see this post.

edit* but you need to be sure. An amped up dog after a fight and a dog who would bite someone.. did anyone try testing her? Like putting their hands NEAR the crate?

[Blacksheepaalredy]

NO ONE said not to put down a HA dog. However, this may not be HA. It could simply be a health problem or a dog amped up after a fierce battle.

At this point, I am leaning toward the cousin and Trooper both rehoming their dogs as they seem very unprepared for the breed.

well i am not rehoming trooper. but heidi is being rehomed. i feel like i know the breed very well. and i as well have been around APBT most of my life and have seen them attack other dogs before never anything like this. if you didnt know any better you would swear it was a staged dog fight with actual fighting dogs.

[janeseymore09092]

well i am not rehoming trooper. but heidi is being rehomed. i feel like i know the breed very well. and i as well have been around APBT most of my life and have seen them attack other dogs before never anything like this. if you didnt know any better you would swear it was a staged dog fight with actual fighting dogs.

Oh lawdy.

Euthanize the dog before you pawn her off to another idiot.