[Adimondin]

Not for the plumbing but for use directly with food.

I know that copper saucepans are lined with tin in order to prevent some untoward effects; I have understood it to be that the copper interacts with the food being cooked and produces a poison.
Firstly I am wondering if that is right.

Is it only for certain foods (and if so which ones and what is the mechanism please?)

My particular query arises after yet another person has noticed and felt it important enough to remark on the "issues" she thought I'd have known about ... ie that I have (and use) a copper soup ladle despite widespread knowledge of " ... its toxic _possibilities_ at least".

I'd have thought that the limited time it spends in contact with the food, would mean the concern is unwarranted.

I do not leave it sitting in the soup pot overnight, for example, though might have it in the pot for (say) an hour or so at most, and by that I mean I can't recall ever having had it in the pot for longer than it has taken to serve stuff, but might have left it in when (say ) a serve yourself buffet kind of table was set up and the soup course was available for that long ... rarely (to the point of probably never, but let's run with it as a hypothetical)

I'm assuming the reaction would be a chemical one, not being able to imagine anything else.

Given that it is OK for water both hot and cold (yep I know it is going to be a neutral thing but soupls are not so that must be it) I wonder what other uses copper has with food (if any) and why copper was used for these products and when its problems were discovered please.

[Orefsmisits]

Nor for the plumbing but for use directly with food.

I know that copper saucepans are lined with tin in order to prevent some untoward effects; I have understood it to be that the copper interacts with the food being cooked and produces a poison.
Firstly I am wondering if that is right.

Is it only for certain foods (and if so which ones and what is the mechanism please?)

My particular query arises after yet another person has noticed and felt it important enough to remark on the "issues" she thought I'd have known about ... ie that I have (and use) a copper soup ladle despite widespread knowledge of " ... its toxic _possibilities_ at least".

I'd have thought that the limited time it spends in contact with the food, would mean the concern is unwarranted.

I do not leave it sitting in the soup pot overnight, for example, though might have it in the pot for (say) an hour or so at most.

I'm assuming the reaction would be a chemical one, not being able to imagine anything else.

Given that it is OK for water both hot and cold (yep I know it is going to be a neutral thing but soupls are not so that must be it) I wonder what other uses copper has with food (if any) and why copper was used for these products and when its problems were discovered please.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv...ier-eng.php#be

http://www.foodscience.csiro.au/fshbull/fshbull20f.htm

I think the pH of the foods being cooked cause the problem (the lower the more copper leaches out or some such).

[FUNALA]

In India, cirrhosis of the liver in children has been linked to the practice of heating milk in copper pots, that I know.

[Orefsmisits]

In India, cirrhosis of the liver in children has been linked to the practice of heating milk in copper pots, that I know.

+1

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professi...ilk&sc=&alt=sh

"Indian childhood cirrhosis, non-Indian childhood cirrhosis, and idiopathic copper toxicity are probably identical disorders in which excess copper causes cirrhosis. All appear to be caused by ingesting milk that has been boiled or stored in corroded copper or brass vessels. Recent studies suggest that idiopathic copper toxicity may develop only in infants with an unknown genetic defect."

[FUNALA]

[url]I think the pH of the foods being cooked cause the problem (the lower the more copper leeches out or some such).

Please, it's "leaches". Leeches are sluggy things that like to suck your blood.

Yes, food acids can react with copper and cause health problems.

[Orefsmisits]

meh

[Adimondin]

oh ok, I had no idea ... I knew not to use it with stewing fruit because (for reasons I do not know) I believed it made it taste funny (would you believe).

I'm assuming it was used because of its malleability, hence ease of manufacture by people with few tools / options?

I also know my kids use copper bowls for beating egg whites ... seems odd, but I guess a chemical reaction with one thing = bad can equally be exploited with a different thing and = good ... or is it (good word I read here this am) wankery?

So the risk is low in my case but if used for basic food prep on a continuing basis that would not be good ... is that a fair summary, or would you personally just not use it all?
(it's simple, beautiful ... )

(What's milk's Ph?)

[Orefsmisits]

pH 6.4-6.8

[skydaypat]

copper pans are used extensively for jam making. we even had a very heavy pot specifically for the process.

[Adimondin]

oh and I see that they talk about corroded copper AND also about storing it in copper ... and factoring in genetic predispossitions.

Could those genetic predispostions have been hardened up by generations of using the copper?

(I am going to have to go to google etc for a history of the use of copper, aren't I )


I took for granted that there would be separate containers for storage but suddenly can see how limited options mean cooking and storing in a single container (I have begun to do it myself when traveling in confined space of a campervan ... :/)

[Adimondin]

copper pans are used extensively for jam making. we even had a very heavy pot specifically for the process.

Yes! I had forgotten that.

One kid used her Gran's bequest to buy one of those ... making jam with gran was one of her great childhood memories ... so how come making Jam is OK but stewing some of those same fruits isn't (or is my info just wrong?).

Lots more sugar in jam of course ...

What about using it for making chutneys with vinegar etc?

[Orefsmisits]

oh and I see that they talk about corroded copper AND also about storing it in copper ... and factoring in genetic predispossitions.

Could those genetic predispostions have been hardened up by generations of using the copper?

Only if it killed or sterilised them before reproducing age.

[Orefsmisits]

Apparently, an oxidised pot is a dangerous pot...

[skydaypat]

an oxidised pot is a dangerous pot... copper carbonate?

[FUNALA]

I think the copper vessels used for cooking would have been tin lined.

[skydaypat]

some are geoff but not all. our jam pot wasn't.

[FUNALA]

Apparently, an oxidised pot is a dangerous pot...

Weak acids more likely to react with oxides (and carbonates) than with fresh metal?

[Adimondin]

I think the copper vessels used for cooking would have been tin lined.

I know that that is the case for the saucepans that our kids have and that is claimed to have made them SAFE.
(although not the big jam making pot)

edit .. oops, Bogsnorkler already said that.

[Buyingtime]

> I have understood it to be that the copper interacts with the food being cooked and produces a poison.

You'll notice the flavour long before it becomes poisonous, no matter how strongly flavoured the food is.

[Adimondin]

> I have understood it to be that the copper interacts with the food being cooked and produces a poison.

You'll notice the flavour long before it becomes poisonous, no matter how strongly flavoured the food is.

People warning me have spoiken of a metallic taste, and since I had never noticed it I had pretty much dimissed itas an issue.

Does it mean that the people of India had become accustomed to that taste and thought it how milk tasted?

I am also aware that people of Mexico used copper a LOT for cooking ... I wonder if they have had the same problems.

In fact bought a large jug thing there and used it many times for making those hot spicy mulled drinks ... had forgotten that.