[blackjackiisre]

[bashansasasasa]

That being said, I'm not really afraid of any Hassid decapitating me if I draw Moses eating a ham sandwich while taking it up the ass, on a Yom Kippur Shabbos.

This, is the perfect place for a ROFL smiley.

[rofl]

And guys, WTF is up with the misused capital letters in posts in this thread?

[Morageort]

Erm, I'm pretty sure Mohamed was a real person.

but not the 'person' they believe him to be

[car.insur]

but not the 'person' they believe him to be

And you know this from where exactly ?

[RicyReetred]

You all ignored Gnius's post and then again when I quoted it which I think summed it up....

This group is a demonstration in support of one's right to expression, and a display of defiance. It's not intended to offend, but rather to assert the rights of those who are not Muslim.

Freedom of expression may not be condoned by Muslims, but I do condone it, so I will demonstrate my right to draw a picture of whatever the hell I want, and I won't have any group tell me I can't or shouldn't. That is the point here, nothing else. It is a stand against people who try and control freedom of expression.

[car.insur]

You all ignored Gnius's post and then again when I quoted it which I think summed it up....



Freedom of expression may not be condoned by Muslims, but I do condone it, so I will demonstrate my right to draw a picture of whatever the hell I want, and I won't have any group tell me I can't or shouldn't. That is the point here, nothing else. It is a stand against people who try and control freedom of expression.

And i totaly get that,
still my point stands, it´s just pissing people off.
Hence the "Why not hang a Swastica above your garage" comment.

[barsikjal]

Freedom of expression may not be condoned by Muslims, but I do condone it, so I will demonstrate my right to draw a picture of whatever the hell I want, and I won't have any group tell me I can't or shouldn't. That is the point here, nothing else. It is a stand against people who try and control freedom of expression.

So you have nothing against Neo Nazis doing their annual marches on the streets? Cool.
There's freedom of expression/speech and "stupidity".

Should I start "Burn the Scottish flag, Union Jack and flag of the USA day" fan group?

[sleepergun]

Simple human courtesy is saying you're sorry first, and not expecting the stranger to apologize.

Bungle, what he said.

Congratulations to both of you on completely missing the point I was making.

You (Noizic) stated that nobody deserved respect unless they had "earned" it. I was making the point that some respect doesn't have to be earned, it showed be showed anyway as a matter of common human decency.

[sleepergun]

You all ignored Gnius's post and then again when I quoted it which I think summed it up....



Freedom of expression may not be condoned by Muslims, but I do condone it, so I will demonstrate my right to draw a picture of whatever the hell I want, and I won't have any group tell me I can't or shouldn't. That is the point here, nothing else. It is a stand against people who try and control freedom of expression.

What good do you think will come from this FB group? Do you think it will improve matters? It won't. All it will do is further inflame relations between us and Muslims.

Some may say the creator of this group had no malicious intent, but I think either that's not true or the creator didn't think through the consequences of his actions enough.

[RicyReetred]

What good do you think will come from this FB group? Do you think it will improve matters? It won't. All it will do is further inflame relations between us and Muslims.

Some may say the creator of this group had no malicious intent, but I think either that's not true or the creator didn't think through the consequences of his actions enough.

You guys really don't understand this do you? And I find that a real shame. When the Danish cartoonist published images he created of Mohammed the following happened....

This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in a total of more than 100 deaths),[1] including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, French and German flags in Gaza City. Now for me, I find that kind of reaction absolutely over the top. What happened that day was non-muslims were sent a message that was basically 'create an image of our prophet and we will attack you'.

Personally I think that is fundamentally wrong. That facebook group was 2 fingers up to this kind of censorship and I for one am all for it.

The worst thing we can do is pander to these looney's needs.

[barsikjal]

and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian, French and German flags in Gaza City

In the name of "Freedom of expression".

?

[RicyReetred]

In the name of "Freedom of expression".

?

Yeah that's right, don't quote the bit about setting fire to the embassies, which I'm imagining could potentially be quite dangerous. I don't see setting a flag on fire a threat to anyone, I don't care if you burn all the ****in flags. If burning a flag is how you express yourself, then go for it, burn away.

It is obviously completely incomparable though, you don't burn flags because another religion or race hates flags being burnt, you are doing it because you hate that country for something they have done. But feel free to compare them if it makes you think your argument is stronger.

[serius_06]

I'd like to tell you a story, if you are all sitting comfortably, then i'll begin.....

"So, my friend and i were walking along a public pathway across a field one day, when we came across a sleeping rabid dog, i wanted to avoid the dog because i knew i was likely to get mauled if i disturbed it, but my friend didn't care, he said this is a public pathway and he has every right to walk across it if he chooses, so he did, when he got close to the dog it lifted it's head and watched him approach.

As he drew closer still, the dog let out a low menacing growl to warn my friend he was getting too close, but my friend was unperturbed and pressed on, then when the dog stood up and started barking and snarling at him, he didn't run or take one of the many alternate routes home that were open to him, instead he thought he would walk right up to the dog singing loudly and stamping his feet.....the rabid dog of course leaped at him and savaged him to death."

That story was of course a load of old tripe, but it does serve the purpose of expressing the old idiom "Let sleeping dogs lie."

There is not purpose to asserting your right to a pointless exercise when there are many other options or pathways to choose from, consider, how many people in that FB group actually, truly care if they are not supposed to draw prophets? And how many of them do you think are merely there to stir up trouble and are doing so because they know it will?

So extremist muslims don't want me to draw pictures of prophets? That's fine by me, i'm not interested in drawing pictures of them anyway, it's a fruitless exercise for me, if their beliefs somehow start affecting my daily life, then i might have issues with whatever it is, but until that rabid dog it actually lying on my doorstep, preventing me from getting home and shitting/puking in my garden, i'll let it sleep and apply my attention to more immediate problems.

[Zvssxstw]

[barsikjal]

Wow! [shocked]

That was actually quite genius! Surprised to see it coming from you OHP!

[TornadoPD]

LOL, nice OHP. [thumbup]

[HugoSimon]

I don't get it? what does the lawn mower picture have to do? genuinely curious, because it went right over my head.

[brorwargy]

I don't get it? what does the lawn mower picture have to do? genuinely curious, because it went right over my head.

Took me a few seconds...Mow...Ham...Head...

[WumibBesowe]

Freedom of expression may not be condoned by Muslims, but I do condone it, so I will demonstrate my right to draw a picture of whatever the hell I want, and I won't have any group tell me I can't or shouldn't. That is the point here, nothing else. It is a stand against people who try and control freedom of expression.

Admittedly the group has been an outlet for some creative and amusing works but it has also been abandoned by a lot of the illustrators who founded/associated themselves with it due to the amount of disturbing islamphobic art that was being submitted. That's where the idea of not going out of your way to offend comes into it. I still see no need to go out of my way to draw Mohamed, I never have and I never think I will. There are much more important ways to express myself than drawing some guy from the 7th century.

This whole group and its motivation is a bunch of smug self glorifying bollocks...

"Did you hear an Islamic extremist killed Theo Van Gogh?"
"Huh? Theo Van who? Well anyway whatever there's a show on I want to see."

"Did you hear they censored South Park?"
"WHAT!?! This is a ****ing outrage. They can't do this ****! Who do they think they are? We need to do something... like have a draw Mohamed day!"

I guess Theo Van Gogh's work didn't make it on to Comedy Central so his death doesn't really count. Of course bringing Theo Van Gogh into it illustrates another aspect of this whole issue. I don't think anyone even the extremist Muslims have directly objected with threats of violence to the simple depiction of Mohamed. They have reacted to things they see as denigrating their religion and their prophet. Mohamed with a bomb on his head, Mohamed as a dog, etc. or in Theo or Wilders case critical movies about Islam. Which is why I see this drawing day as cheap swipe. It does nothing to address the wider issue nor the fact that most Muslims are moderate.

Why take a cheap shot at all Muslims to make a point about an extremist minority? And what is that point exactly? We already know that this 'protest' was inspired by what happened to South Park so who does that make the target? Should you all be drawing pictures of the management of Comedy Central since they are the ones who censored the show not Muslims. It seems kind of ironic that a lot of what has been said here is contrary to the thinking of people like Geert Wilders who says in reference to freedom of speech, "An Imam who wants a politician dead is—however reprehensible—allowed to say so". That seems to be the problem here there is an accusation being made that we can say whatever we want about Muslims/Mohamed and they aren't allowed to respond negatively because that's not celebrating free speech. Well actually they are, unless laws cover incitement, well within their rights to do so. This is one of the many hypocrisies here, "We can do this because we believe in the freedom of expression but don't support your freedom of expression so there."

Molly Norris' herself said her protest was hijacked and the movement was "offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place"

[HugoSimon]

"offensive to Muslims who did nothing to endanger our right to expression in the first place" exactly. no one is defending extremists who would kill over a cartoon! it's simply low class and frankly, intolerant, to go out of one's way to offend and mock an entire religion. (because some extremists have abused it) being intellectual or critical of a religion is one thing, going to extremes to **** all over well meaning people's belief systems is crass and ignorant. which ironically, that's what you guys are accusing them of.

to be clear, I'm not against a political cartoon or even South Park depicting Mohammed. In that case, you have an artist making a political statement. But some bumb ass Facebook group? [rolleyes] you've got to be kidding me.[rolleyes] A bunch of hack morons jumping on a bandwagon, many of whom are motivated by bigotry and intolerance and all of whom go way out of their way to offend and denigrate some genuinely good and well meaning people's deep held spiritual beliefs.