WRC goes S1600T, what now for IRC? - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**BriKevin** · 12-12-2009, 12:22 AM

From 2011 onwards, manufacturers will not be able to homologate "traditional" S2000 cars but only "S1600Ts".

So which route will IRC go? Stick with the old formula, move to the new one or change to a different one altogether (R3T?)

**casinochniks** · 12-12-2009, 04:21 AM

Interesting question and thread...

**uMG6uOSo** · 12-12-2009, 04:37 AM

I suppose this is the crossroads now. In that car manufacturers can decide which route the want to take for relatively similar budgets and pick between the WRC or IRC. You would figure the WRC holds the most commercial value. I'm sure through logistics and development it will be more expensive. But it is much more of a coherent championship than the IRC with all rounds counting towards points etc.

But if the IRC wants these new cars (Citroen/Prodrive project) they will need to open up their regs. It might be a case of evolve or die...

**tattcasetle** · 12-12-2009, 04:51 AM

Rather simplistically and naiievely I would say that no manufacturer actually has a 1.6T - Citroen (and I guess Prodrive Mini) will have one, but as it stands IF IRC stick their ground to S2000 it could leave WRC with only Citroen DS3 1.6T. Therefor if no other manufacturer other Citroen produces a 1.6T the WRC dies........

**chinesemedicine** · 12-12-2009, 04:56 AM

Can someone clarify for me as I don't understand...at all.

S2000 is dying for 2011, meaning ALL cars will be 1600T, correct? As an amateur like myself, surely S2000 is better than 1600T as it is a higher number? Or does the Turbo make that big a diference? What will the order be of cars in 2011? 1600T then S2000 then WRC then GpN is it?

Also, the new S2000 Cup in 2010 will involve what? And how does the S-WRC fit into all this as well as the Super 2000 Cup for Teams?

I'm so darn confused. It's been a long week...

**chinesemedicine** · 12-12-2009, 04:59 AM

Sorry, I get the S-WRC is for drivers, while the other one is for teams. Bit slow on my front!

**corolaelwis** · 12-12-2009, 05:00 AM

Rather simplistically and naiievely I would say that no manufacturer actually has a 1.6T - Citroen (and I guess Prodrive Mini) will have one, but as it stands IF IRC stick their ground to S2000 it could leave WRC with only Citroen DS3 1.6T. Therefor if no other manufacturer other Citroen produces a 1.6T the WRC dies........

Loads of manufactuers are creating small, turbo powered engines for their cars, its the future. They have reduced emisions and better MPG while keeping the same amount of power.

VW have already got a very good 1.6 GT engine while ford are very advanced with the development of their own

**tattcasetle** · 12-12-2009, 05:06 AM

Loads of manufactuers are creating small, turbo powered engines for their cars, its the future. They have reduced emisions and better MPG while keeping the same amount of power.

VW have already got a very good 1.6 GT engine while ford are very advanced with the development of their own

I meant rally engine - sure small capacity petrol (turbo) engines are defiantely the way forward. The 2 litre engine is for the history books. My concern was / is which manufacturers WILL join WRC? It should be OK if VW drop the 1.6T engine in a Skoda, or any VW brand, Mini, Citroen, and even Ford too.

**uMG6uOSo** · 12-12-2009, 05:06 AM

And I suppose even if the manu's did opt against the 1.6T the FIA just remove the homologation ruling. In which case the whole thing could have been implemented with ease 3 years earlier!

But I hope the teams will embrace 1.6T and all move in a collective single direction. In the short-term the FIA did the best thing by not penalising the existing manufacturers. Get them all competing in the WRC and then start fiddling about to improve the regs.

**BriKevin** · 12-12-2009, 05:27 AM

VAG don't have a 1.6T, but they have 1.4T they could bore out or 1.8T they could sleeve down.

The issue here is that from 2011 manufacturers cannot homologate new 2 litre S2000s so IRC will have to change formula or use only old cars.

**uMG6uOSo** · 12-12-2009, 05:46 AM

My confusion was that I thought the homologation laws from 2011 mandating 1.6T was just for the WRC. But is it in fact the FIA demanding this for all of rallying. Hence no one has a choice?

**BriKevin** · 12-12-2009, 06:20 AM

My confusion was that I thought the homologation laws from 2011 mandating 1.6T was just for the WRC. But is it in fact the FIA demanding this for all of rallying. Hence no one has a choice?

Correct!

I wonder why...

**patuvammnogoo** · 12-13-2009, 02:23 AM

The issue here is that from 2011 manufacturers cannot homologate new 2 litre S2000s so IRC will have to change formula or use only old cars.

Megaidiocy ... as usual.

S2000 is the best formula now ! I hope IRC says ok FU we keep going on, you bury your own rally championship alone

**Vomazoono** · 12-13-2009, 02:27 AM

Correct!

I wonder why...

money money money.

**ebookinfo** · 12-14-2009, 01:56 AM

Megaidiocy ... as usual.

S2000 is the best formula now ! I hope IRC says ok FU we keep going on, you bury your own rally championship alone

In a couple of years or from 2011, there will be no IRC only WRC. IRC has no carmaterial except from older and older S2000 cars and that means it will die sooner or later after 2011.

The manus has to adapt to the new regulations meaning they all in the end have cars for WRC.

It´s not money, it´s more environmental thing...

**Koayrbzh** · 12-14-2009, 03:18 AM

Where does it say that there will be no new S2000 homologations from 2011 and onwards ?

**QQQQQ-Trek** · 12-14-2009, 03:34 AM

In a couple of years or from 2011, there will be no IRC only WRC. IRC has no carmaterial except from older and older S2000 cars and that means it will die sooner or later after 2011.

The manus has to adapt to the new regulations meaning they all in the end have cars for WRC.

It´s not money, it´s more environmental thing...

IRC can do whatever it wants. They can run 1.6T.

**rxnixoncom** · 12-14-2009, 03:45 AM

I agree.. They can rename it to the Eurosport challange.. It will be equal publicity.. 1.6T should be allowed in any championship..

**ebookinfo** · 12-14-2009, 04:15 AM

I agree.. They can rename it to the Eurosport challange.. It will be equal publicity.. 1.6T should be allowed in any championship..

I wouldn´t think FIA will let IRC continue in current form (a worldwide serie) as equal with WRC. Maybe as European championship (ERC) possibly...

**rxnixoncom** · 12-14-2009, 05:03 AM

WTCC was started by Eurosport events so FIA won't tell anything against IRC.. It's only preasure on manufacturers..

12-12-2009, 12:22 AM	#1
BriKevin Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	WRC goes S1600T, what now for IRC? From 2011 onwards, manufacturers will not be able to homologate "traditional" S2000 cars but only "S1600Ts". So which route will IRC go? Stick with the old formula, move to the new one or change to a different one altogether (R3T?) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 04:21 AM	#2
casinochniks Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 416 Senior Member	Interesting question and thread... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 04:37 AM	#3
uMG6uOSo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 450 Senior Member	I suppose this is the crossroads now. In that car manufacturers can decide which route the want to take for relatively similar budgets and pick between the WRC or IRC. You would figure the WRC holds the most commercial value. I'm sure through logistics and development it will be more expensive. But it is much more of a coherent championship than the IRC with all rounds counting towards points etc. But if the IRC wants these new cars (Citroen/Prodrive project) they will need to open up their regs. It might be a case of evolve or die... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 04:51 AM	#4
tattcasetle Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 535 Senior Member	Rather simplistically and naiievely I would say that no manufacturer actually has a 1.6T - Citroen (and I guess Prodrive Mini) will have one, but as it stands IF IRC stick their ground to S2000 it could leave WRC with only Citroen DS3 1.6T. Therefor if no other manufacturer other Citroen produces a 1.6T the WRC dies........ Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 04:56 AM	#5
chinesemedicine Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 506 Senior Member	Can someone clarify for me as I don't understand...at all. S2000 is dying for 2011, meaning ALL cars will be 1600T, correct? As an amateur like myself, surely S2000 is better than 1600T as it is a higher number? Or does the Turbo make that big a diference? What will the order be of cars in 2011? 1600T then S2000 then WRC then GpN is it? Also, the new S2000 Cup in 2010 will involve what? And how does the S-WRC fit into all this as well as the Super 2000 Cup for Teams? I'm so darn confused. It's been a long week... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 04:59 AM	#6
chinesemedicine Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 506 Senior Member	Sorry, I get the S-WRC is for drivers, while the other one is for teams. Bit slow on my front! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 05:00 AM	#7
corolaelwis Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 470 Senior Member	Rather simplistically and naiievely I would say that no manufacturer actually has a 1.6T - Citroen (and I guess Prodrive Mini) will have one, but as it stands IF IRC stick their ground to S2000 it could leave WRC with only Citroen DS3 1.6T. Therefor if no other manufacturer other Citroen produces a 1.6T the WRC dies........ Loads of manufactuers are creating small, turbo powered engines for their cars, its the future. They have reduced emisions and better MPG while keeping the same amount of power. VW have already got a very good 1.6 GT engine while ford are very advanced with the development of their own Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 05:06 AM	#8
tattcasetle Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 535 Senior Member	Loads of manufactuers are creating small, turbo powered engines for their cars, its the future. They have reduced emisions and better MPG while keeping the same amount of power. VW have already got a very good 1.6 GT engine while ford are very advanced with the development of their own I meant rally engine - sure small capacity petrol (turbo) engines are defiantely the way forward. The 2 litre engine is for the history books. My concern was / is which manufacturers WILL join WRC? It should be OK if VW drop the 1.6T engine in a Skoda, or any VW brand, Mini, Citroen, and even Ford too. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 05:27 AM	#10
BriKevin Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	VAG don't have a 1.6T, but they have 1.4T they could bore out or 1.8T they could sleeve down. The issue here is that from 2011 manufacturers cannot homologate new 2 litre S2000s so IRC will have to change formula or use only old cars. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 05:46 AM	#11
uMG6uOSo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 450 Senior Member	My confusion was that I thought the homologation laws from 2011 mandating 1.6T was just for the WRC. But is it in fact the FIA demanding this for all of rallying. Hence no one has a choice? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-12-2009, 06:20 AM	#12
BriKevin Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 445 Senior Member	My confusion was that I thought the homologation laws from 2011 mandating 1.6T was just for the WRC. But is it in fact the FIA demanding this for all of rallying. Hence no one has a choice? Correct! I wonder why... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-13-2009, 02:23 AM	#13
patuvammnogoo Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 575 Senior Member	The issue here is that from 2011 manufacturers cannot homologate new 2 litre S2000s so IRC will have to change formula or use only old cars. Megaidiocy ... as usual. S2000 is the best formula now ! I hope IRC says ok FU we keep going on, you bury your own rally championship alone Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-13-2009, 02:27 AM	#14
Vomazoono Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 436 Senior Member	Correct! I wonder why... money money money. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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12-14-2009, 01:56 AM	#15
ebookinfo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	Megaidiocy ... as usual. S2000 is the best formula now ! I hope IRC says ok FU we keep going on, you bury your own rally championship alone In a couple of years or from 2011, there will be no IRC only WRC. IRC has no carmaterial except from older and older S2000 cars and that means it will die sooner or later after 2011. The manus has to adapt to the new regulations meaning they all in the end have cars for WRC. It´s not money, it´s more environmental thing... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-14-2009, 03:18 AM	#16
Koayrbzh Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 440 Senior Member	Where does it say that there will be no new S2000 homologations from 2011 and onwards ? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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12-14-2009, 03:34 AM	#17
QQQQQ-Trek Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 659 Senior Member	In a couple of years or from 2011, there will be no IRC only WRC. IRC has no carmaterial except from older and older S2000 cars and that means it will die sooner or later after 2011. The manus has to adapt to the new regulations meaning they all in the end have cars for WRC. It´s not money, it´s more environmental thing... IRC can do whatever it wants. They can run 1.6T. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-14-2009, 03:45 AM	#18
rxnixoncom Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 521 Senior Member	I agree.. They can rename it to the Eurosport challange.. It will be equal publicity.. 1.6T should be allowed in any championship.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-14-2009, 04:15 AM	#19
ebookinfo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	I agree.. They can rename it to the Eurosport challange.. It will be equal publicity.. 1.6T should be allowed in any championship.. I wouldn´t think FIA will let IRC continue in current form (a worldwide serie) as equal with WRC. Maybe as European championship (ERC) possibly... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

12-14-2009, 05:03 AM	#20
rxnixoncom Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 521 Senior Member	WTCC was started by Eurosport events so FIA won't tell anything against IRC.. It's only preasure on manufacturers.. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote