[Eugen80]

Found this thread, and decided to post in here rather than creating a new thread.

I have been battling a huge slice ever since I first began playing golf, and through some hard work with my driver I have got it down to a nice cut/fade that I can control. I have been working quite hard to get my tee shots to just be straight, but since doing that I have developed a tendency to get a nasty pull off the tee box and send it straight left. What I see myself doing is over compensating for my slice swing and going too much across myself and just pulling the heck out of it.

This past Wednesday, after a little pump up from watching the MC all last weekend, I decided to try something. Decided to take aim down the left side of the fairway and just play my cut off the tee. I hit 6/7 fairways, and found that I was able to swing a lot more comfortably and really get my swing going when I was confident that I knew what my ball was going to do. My scores have been getting much better over the past few months, and I feel that I am able to control a lot of what I do with my clubs now vs just swinging and praying it stayed up.

So, just curious what some of your thoughts are on this? Keep working on hitting the straight ball? Or, just allow my natural swing to do its thing?

[Lvnufcdc]

Play your natural shot shape dude. I have the cut shot in my arsenal for sure. By playing it, I know without a shadow of doubt that my ball will never ever go right with a driver. That's pretty comforting.

[Nakforappealp]

I had my 2nd lesson last night and the pro had me try to draw the ball a little bit with each shot. We worked on hybrids, woods and driver.

After the lesson we were discussing this and he said that if you can consistently hit a draw/fade, you can in essence not have to worry about the hazards on half of the course, ie. if you draw the ball, the hazards on the right really don't come into play since you never hit it right.

We then spoke about Nicklaus(I believe it was him). He gave me an example that say you have a 20 foot wide green, if you aim for the pin and miss 10 feet or more, you will be off the green on either side. Nicklaus would always fade the ball a bit, so he would aim 8 feet left of the pin. If he hit it straight, then he would still be on the green putting for birdie. If he hit a fade from a baby fade to a larger one, he still had 18 feet of green to work with, thereby increasing his margin of error.

This got me thinking.

So, do you you use that strategy when hitting onto the fairway or green or just try to hit it straight?

[BiseCreesia]

I try to hit the ball straight, every time. When thinking of hazards coming in to play, I rely on my distances to keep me safe (laying up or being able to carry them). IMO, for most amateurs, we should worry about keeping the ball straight and in play vs hitting draws/fades, etc.

[Trientoriciom]

I have heard this before and it makes lots of sense. Jack Nicklaus was one of the best to ever play the game. His strategy of hitting draws or fades was perfect! And he could execute it, too. The problem is execution... It would be awesome if I could consistently hit a draw or fade. But I can't. And the times I typically try to hit a little cut I end up hitting a push hook. I would love to learn how to work the ball left to right proficiently like that but right now I need to concentrate on hitting straight to a number maybe after I get great at that I'll learn to hit a controlled cut or draw. So to answer your question... I hit it straight.

[UlceskLialels]

I try to hit the ball straight, every time. When thinking of hazards coming in to play, I rely on my distances to keep me safe (laying up or being able to carry them). IMO, for most amateurs, we should worry about keeping the ball straight and in play vs hitting draws/fades, etc.

That's my thinking as well. I was just a bit surprised when he recommended that.

[jelena-nanana]

I understand the premise behind it and it makes perfect sense as I've always heard it in the past. If you know what your ball is doing when you hit it, there are no surprises and you can plan for any shot. I often wonder that if you're good enough to do one or the other, why not just hit it straight? If you always draw the ball, you can aim a little right and bring it back. If you always hit is straight, why not just aim in the middle to begin with? You can eliminate all the hazards if you hit it straight all the time. If you try to do one or the other to eliminate mistakes on one side, can't you make the same mistakes (missing one way or the other) no matter what you do? I think more important is the ability to move the ball either way or hit it straight when you need to.

[VarenHokalos]

I think it's good advice if you have a consistent shot shape that you are used to. No reason to force a straight ball if you always hit a fade.

[reawnvam]

I typically hit a draw with my driver. As a result, I aim down the right center, or over the right edge. If I hit the draw, great. If not, I'm still in a good spot.

On another note, you mentioned this was just your second lesson. If you are over a 10 handicap or so, I would emphasize solid ball contact and hitting it straight. I can't imagine a teaching pro trying to get someone to hit cuts / draws on command so early in one's game development. Yes, the theory is great, but execution is very difficult.

[Gadarett]

definitely wouldnt try to force it, lord knows i have enough issues getting it go go straight, no need to throw gas on the fire

[RerRoktoido]

Initially I always bought into the example: If you try to hit a straight ball down the center of the fairway you have 1/2 a fairway on both sides as a margin of error, whereas if you start the ball at one edge and work it over you have the entire fairway as the margin of error.

Well with that theory it only works assuming the ball turns in the direction you want. Let's take a fade for example: you have zero margin of error against a pull, little to none against against a ball that stays straight, and then a good margin for the fade/slice.

For a straight ball: you have a small margin for pushes, a small margin for pulls, and a big margin for if it stays straight (albeit slightly off center...kinda of like the overcooking the fade)

So for the 2 examples you have 1 scenario where there are 3 outcomes (0%, 5%, 70%) of it staying in the fairway vs. (5%, 5%, 70%). Basically the straight ball takes the extremity out of the shot whereas with the fade you are aiming into trouble and hoping for it to come back into play. I know there are ways to minimize the risk but you get the idea I'm trying to convey.

That being said, if you are skilled enough to ensure the ball will turn over then yes it makes sense to risk it, but if you're flipping a coin on whether or not it will turn over then the straight ball in the high probability.

Edit: I randomly assigned %'s and then kept them consistent for similar shots

[kavaTeexy]

I always play for some sort of shaped shot, usually a baby draw with my irons. It makes a huge difference knowing that the ball will not go farther right than it's initially aimed. The same goes for a fade if you can control it. I tend to prefer the draw because the shot travels a similar distance to a straight shot whereas a fade tends to come up short (predictably so).

The big issue I've found with trying to hit straight shots is the sensitivity of the shot shape to slight variances in how the club face is squared up. A degree to either side of square leads to pretty significant curving one way or the other. When you factor in the distance variation between a draw and a fade (~15 yds for me) that leads to a very large and unpredictable landing area. However, if you play for a particular shot shape, being slightly off from the proper face alignment has less impact and tends to cause drift to the side rather than in distance.

A draw is more predictable for me because I know my distance with a straight shot and that it'll get at most 5-7 yds extra distance with a strong draw. As a result, I can aim for the right side of my target and map out a nice oval landing area around it.

I intentionally fade the ball in three situations:
1) Something is blocking the right side of my hitting zone that has a good chance of interfering with the ball (usually trees). This necessitates a fade to work it around the obstacles.
2) The pin is tucked to the right side of the green and the area to the left of the green is too hazardous. For example, if water guards the left side, I'll start the shot there and work it right to completely remove the danger from the equation. If the left side isn't too bad, I'll instead hit a slight draw to hit the middle of the green so at worst it leaves me with a long runout on the green. Never short side yourself if other options exist!
3) The target distance is in between clubs and going long is bad (water, short side bunker, etc.). Since my fade knocks a predictable amount off of my distance depending on exact shape, I can use that to ensure the shot stays on line but can't go long. I'd rather come up a hair short and leave a chance for an up and down than completely hose the opportunity by carrying the landing area.

Basically, figure out what shot shape is most comfortable and repeatable for you and stick with it as the default. The most important thing is to get consistent distance control. It's usually better to end up pin high and little off to the side than massively long or short. You'll end up with a lot more opportunities and have a lot more fun!

[JTS_tv]

I had my 2nd lesson last night and the pro had me TRY to draw the ball a little bit with each shot. We worked on hybrids, woods and driver.

After the lesson we were discussing this and he said that IF you can consistently hit a draw/fade, you can in essence not have to worry about the hazards on half of the course, ie. IF you draw the ball, the hazards on the right really don't come into play since you never hit it right........

So, do you you use that strategy when hitting onto the fairway or green or just try to hit it straight?

Honestly, I hope the pro wasn't trying to get you to try this from now on and maybe he was just trying to let you know his logic and where you could be someday in the future. I personally tend to hit a fade and now for some reason tend to hit a draw with my driver. I've been playing for a long time and decided that I want to hit it straight. That's it. Sure, I will mess around at the driving range or maybe even on some dog legs, but it takes some real skill to be able to draw/fade the ball and land remotely where you want it to land. If it's not natural and you can't normally hit it straight with some accuracy then I wouldn't try anything fancy.

He's basically right but, way too early. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a pro on tv line up for a draw/fade and then you see them leaning and groaning after the shot. They missed it and they're professionals that get paid tons of money. It's really tough to do even for the pros.

[ZZChristopher]

It is definitely best if you can shape your shots. I think it was Hogan who said if he ever hit a shot straight it was by accident. However, this requires a level of skill most duffers don't have.

I think it is next best if you have a consistent ball flight because you can eliminate half the course as a problem zone. So whether you draw/hook or fade/slice the ball get to a point where you can control that ball flight.

[flienianO]

You know the hardest shot to consistently hit is a straight shot. Just play to your strengths. Shot shaping is not easy and should not really be applied unless you know what you're doing. It is very advantageous if you can consistently hit certain shots. You'll see your scoring improve.

[bubbachew14]

The hardest shot to hit is the straight ball. I am a believer in creating a consistent shot shape, regardless of what the shape is. Shot shape is not the same as "working the ball." So for me, find a consistent swing and play within it.

[romalama]

I want to hit a straight ball. If I can hit it straight with any sort of consistancy, I wouldn't be afraid of missing or hazards or whatever. I'd love to hit it straight.

[dAy2EWlg]

Since I have been fit for, and started playing these Burner 2.0's, my irons have a consistent middle draw, so I have been using that exact theory the pro mentioned to you.
My 3 wood and hybrid have a similar ball flight so the theory works there as well.
The driver on the other hand is more straight to baby fade, so I take that into account when picking an aim point.

[muytreda]

Anybody notice that aiming to account for a certain ball flight exaggerates that ball flight? For example, I was really hitting some big sweeping draws for awhile this year. I'd set up to the right of my target, which I think actually closed me up and made me hit an ever bigger hook. I've had the opposite as well, when I used to play a fade more often.

[EmpaccalGah]

Its a very good strategy, especially if you want to commit to a fade because its much more controllable. The thing to remember is that on "stock" shots, ams tend to curve the ball much more than pros. It sounds counter-intuitive, but the pros are able to generate much higher ballspeeds which means the forward action of the ball out does the side-to-side action of the ball at first.

Only after the pros shot has lost its initial ball speed does the ball start to curve. Accordingly, if you see pros hit the ball in person, their ball flights look like straight rockets off the face, then they apex, THEN the curve left or right depending on the desired shot.

Most amateurs (Me included), generally don't generate the ball speed required for this "penetrating-then-curve" ball flight, so our trajectory has much more curve to it. Of course pros will hit super curving shots when desired, but generally won't, ala the antecdote about Nickalus (gentle fade).

I guess my point overall though is that allowing the ball the curve is good thing, and committing to a ball flight can make the game much more enjoyable than constantly trying to "hit it straight."