[Green_Monkey23]

I agree 100%, i think what makes me a little more annoyed is when i hear people on this forum say it, i dont always expect it but prepared for a random person i meet to dislike pit bulls, but i figured on this forum it would at least a little different, i didnt expect people on her to label a group for "destroying" a breed. I kinda see it as a contradiction, but i guess its more the context in which its used in how i feel about it. I personally dont like any negative attention that gets associated with pit bulls. I think most people say thugs, there talking about people who, look a certain way, and have no idea if their thugs or not but are just going on appearance

[blogwado]

I am sure I have used thug before. I try not to, but I am sure I have. When I use/used thug or white trash, I usually mean/meant the scum from either the city or the Country, not how one dresses. Like I said, probably not the best term to use, people probably should just use scum, but I think many times, it just comes up.

[legal-advicer]

In some situations it may apply but not always, but to blame thugs as the problem to me is kind of idiotic because their dogs arnt the ones attacking people on the street or whose dog attacked a child.

I greatly disagree with this. Where I am from thier dogs ARE the ones who attack and maul people. The overwhelming majority of fatal dog attacks involving pitbulls in the state of Massachusetts can be found in Roxbury, Dorchester, Springfeild, Lawrence, Lynn & Lowell. All of which are highly populated with blacks & hispanics. You cannot swing a dead cat by its tail ( in those towns mentioned )without hitting a young black or hispanic male who owns a pitbull. They are a very commonly owned breed in urban area's. Even in my town, all the serious complaints of pitbull activity comes from a more colorful rich parts of town. My sister is ACO and all but a few incidents of dogfighting and dog biting..loose dogs...etc etc etc hale from those parts of the city. So I do disagree about who's dogs are doing what to who.

As for the dogs in general getting a bad rap...sure I agree that alot of incidents involve clueless white folks, however I would venture to guess that the majority of those are more accidental due to ignorance than to be more of deliberate actions of the urban pitbull owning population. You may disagree with what I type however, Ive been around a long time and have seen and experienced all of what I say through my own eyes to know it be true.

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 PM ----------

Strange, maybe it's the area I'm from (SoCal, so plenty of black people here too) but the pitbull stigma is less about "black people" and more about "thugs" (which in these parts usually means black, brown and yellow). I also realize that in many other parts of the US, white guys will also fit that stigma. So I actually think it's less about the color of the people and rather the local flavor, if that makes sense.

But if we are simply wondering why the non-pitbull crowd might associate pitbulls with "thugs", why not look at the following things:

1. Why are most pitbull sites embedded with Olde English font? Haven't really noticed the local knitting club crocheting "Ole E" letters in their latest caps. I can tell you of one place that LOVES Olde E: prison.
2. Why are plenty of pitbull sites pumping hip hop and rap? No, HH and rap are NOT thuggish in and of themselves, but there seems to be a theme...
3. What's with the names of Gotti, Capone, Noriega, and all thug, criminal, dictator related monikers? Is it for a greater appreciation of world history?
4. Why are pits the only dogs portrayed in music videos as chained, human eating animals? I can name at least three rappers whose videos perpetuate the dog fighting look. Can't name a single country, R&B and slow jam singer whose video does the same.
5. Generally speaking, there's an irony from the "non-thuggish" crowd that continues to dress, speak, act and carry on like thugs whilst proclaiming "We're not thugs. But eff you if you think that". The old saying of looking, walking and quacking like a duck probably applies here...

Now, none of these things by themselves are "thugs", but honestly which of these things are NOT associated with "thugs"? The guy who shaves his head, grows a goatee, wears extra large pants, sags, wears white Cortez sneakers, uses a military belt, has sleeve tats, drives a lowered ride with dubs, mugs when taking pics, squats when taking pics, is liberal about weed smoking, can talk about the last 7 fights he's been in, did not go to college, doesn't hold a steady job, etc. Again, none of these things in and of themselves is "thuggish" but are people really supposed to believe these individuals are NOT trying to perpetuate the thuggish image. Puhlease.

Btw, please note that these descriptions don't necessarily apply to one race--we have plenty of black, white, brown and yellow sub groups that follow all of these things.

It's merely an attempt to explain WHY pits and thugs are almost always associated together.

Bravo !

Well said.

[IdomeoreTew]

There are people out there who brag how their dogs are man eaters and how vicious they are. THOSE are the people I'm talking about breeding HA APBTs.
And as far as I'm concerned, a drug dealer falls under the category of "thug" and so does anyone who goes aroung sicking their dog on others.
I'm NOT talking about someone who finds out the hard way that their dog bites. I'm talking about those who WANT their dogs to bite people, and makes sure that the dogs want to do it, and are rewarded for it.

---------- Post added at 09:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 PM ----------

Again, I don't care what someone looks like. But someone who is ACTING like a scumbag... well... if the shoe fits...

[NEWyear]

I didn't think being a thug recognized ethnic boundaries. Thugs are thugs. I'm not going to change my mind based on what I see every day.

[Green_Monkey23]

colbydog, what does that have to do with thugs? The fact that its in a black or hispanic neighborhood doesnt mean that if theirs a dog attack that it belongs to a thug. My confusion is more with how does a middle class white person having a pit bull and it attack someone differ from a poor black person differ beside of social status. If their dog attacks someone and killed someone based on carelessness then they are both ignorant in my opinion. As skippy said, being a thug doesnt recognize ethnic boundaries, a thug is simply a thug. If that were the case these dogs would just have a bad rep here in the us but yet they are also banned in other countries, why? because of irresponsible owners not "black people" "hispanic people" im all for putting the blame on where its deserved but to say that even the majority of it is because of thugs is obviously wrong. I can agree on the name of certain dog lines but lets be real, how many of the average mid class white people actually know what gotti line is or has even visited one these websites. As i said before, pit bull are more popular in these neighborhoods, but that doesnt mean that they are all owned by thugs, maybe it would be that because their may be a higher number of byb that they are easier to come buy then a poodle or etc

[blogwado]

My confusion is more with how does a middle class white person having a pit bull and it attack someone differ from a poor black person differ beside of social status.

If both the MCW and the PBP dog attacks without them realizing the aggression, then they are in the same boat. However, if the MCW or the PBP encourage the human aggression, that is when it differs, and many thugs/white trash encourage the human aggression.

[Green_Monkey23]

fittest, i agree with some of what you said but not all, its like coolhandjean said, white people with tattoos and motorcycles with pit bulls are sometimes portrayed in the same light, what he should stop doing what he likes doing because some idiotic people would like to judge him without knowing him. If a guy black guy wears baggy clothes and has tattoos then hes a thug? I personally only wear levis or any other pair of fitted jeans, polos and a fitted cap, which a lot of people my age wear not only in urban areas but in the surburbs as well, and a lot of thugs wear the same thing. I personally think that its ignorant to say because you dress a certain way you must be a "thug". Im not saying that your supposed to get to know everyone but to take a look at them and automatically assume something negative is just crazy to me. So i guess i should change the way i look so that i wont be considered a "thug" lol
I dont see how people who actually own pit bulls can throw judgement and blame when people who dislike the breed do that same as well and as most of us know is wrong, but its okay when its aimed in the other direction....sounds pretty hypocritical to me lol

[legal-advicer]

Withour causing a race war....Its to my belief that most people on forums will use the term "thug" in place of any specific race when in all actually ality they DO mean a specific race but are too afraid to say it.

I would love to see some actual statistics of fatal dog attacks on humans involving the APBT, Inner city areas vs Suburbia. I'd be willing to bet my house's on it that its not the folks in suburbia who make up the higher percentage. Its not the middle white class who acquire these dogs to bolster thier status amoungst thier piers, and we all know that it is a far too common trend that those who dwell in the inner city do.

I do agree that suburban white folk who own APBT's do contribute thier fair share of APBT headlines, but more often than not, its for dog on dog altercations that escelate into humans getting bit, as to where the folks in the urban parts of the globe contribute to more deliberate altercations by raising bad ass dogs which are both animal & human aggressive APBT's.

[IdomeoreTew]

Nope, race is not an issue. I may be a biker chick with more tattoos than your average man, but what differs me from some scumbag is that I don't sell drugs, hurt people, or sick my dogs on others. I don't breed HA dogs and act like I'm the bomb.
Sure, there are plenty of trash that fit my same profile as far as looks goes, but its all about the actions.

And you can be a scumbag/trash/thug whatever whether you are white, black, brown, or freakin purple.

Its all in how you ACT.

[Green_Monkey23]

I agree, as someone stated earlier, its not hard to read between the lines, i personally can sometimes tell by the context but you still wont really know. Im pretty sure that the statistics would be higher in these neighborhoods but in my opinion it would the same reason as to why "pit bulls" have a higher dog bite ratio.
1. Their are more pit bulls in these areas then in surburban areas, bc a lot of people who live in the surburbs are less educated about the breed, or buy into these stereotype.
2. There is more byb, which lead to poorly bred dogs

I believe that this happens every where but yea, it does happen more so in these areas, but im kinda weary that people teach their pits too be HA, honestly how would you know unless you people who do this. If you read most of these headlines, even on this forum with dog attacks, even peoples personal experiences are more then often surburban people white or black. My opinion is that people make dumb decisions everywhere, and sometimes they have consequences which lead to a negative outlook on the bred. To place the blame a specific group to me is ridiculous. A lot of people have bad perceptions of the breed because of their personal experiences, some mid class white people. Irresponsible owners have no race or certain look.

[7HlBQS8j]

rioechhs It appears to me that you may want this to be a racial thing you sure are pushing it in that direction in my opinion.
I get stereotyped I have a shaved head I have some Tats and I ride a motorcycle. and people assume that I am a skinhead racist or some white power extremist but you know I could care less what that person thinks I know its not true, my family knows the truth and that is all that matters. I am originally from the south grew up on a farm and I would classify myself as a redneck but I do not take offense with someone saying rednecks are part of the issue they are not directing it at me as a person and I agree that you have rednecks that are part if the problem. This is not a politically correct forum and no reason for it to be. most of us are her for the same reason to talk about the Dogs and get others ideas and share ours and hopefully make things better for the DOGS.

[Green_Monkey23]

hogar, im sorry if it seems that way, im not trying too but im just trying to understand it a lot better because i believe that some people think that way. i do believe that my question has started to change a little, but as i said before that i dont think thug just means black. i honestly tried to steer away from race, the only time i think i really even brought race up was when i responded to a question that might have brought it up, i dont mean to make this a race question at all, as i stated before in previous post that even blacks make that same comments, its more so towards young people who act and look a certain are considered thugs bc of it...in my own personal opinion after what you just described i would assume that you would understand.

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 PM ----------

sorry i dont mean to keep ranting on and on but, i as you said you dont care what people think, i dont either. I dont plan on changing the way i look or act because someone doesnt agree with it. I said also in a earlier post that it was more of a rhetorical question, the word thug is thrown around on this forum, and in my opinion i take it as if they are judging the person without knowing them, and calling them thugs and saying they are the downfall of the breed. I think in some peoples eyes i might fit the category, which would make me the downfall of the breed, and i was just interested as to why? As i said im far from it, college educated, grad school soon, and to be considered a thug in some peoples eyes bc of the music i like, the way i dress, walk, talk etc would be considered a thug. I know not in every ones eyes, i was just trying to get imput on the matter bc i am somewhat lost to why people would say "thug"

[Sopsneork]

Hey, im pretty new to the site, i havent really posted much on here but i kinda have one question that ive been wanting to know ever since ive been on these forums. I dont mean to rant but before i ask my question i kinda wanna give just a little background so you can understand my point of view i guess. So im a young black male from an urban neighborhood in durham nc, which is beside raleigh, chapel hill, cary etc so pretty city in my opinion. In my neighborhood, almost everyone has a "pit bull" so ive been around them my whole life and until this forum considered myself to be somewhat of a fancier which i use loosely, because i know i have tons to learn. Ive done a lot of reading on this site and other pit bull wed sites and whenever the discussion comes up about the downfall or bad reputation of the breed, someone points out "thugs" or what not. I personally am in no way a "thug" im currently a college with plans of going to grad school when i grad, but in apperence in some peoples eyes i may resemble a "thug" but maybe not, but in no way am i a thug. Now in my opinion i think that its the opposite away around, its not the dog fighters or thugs thats giving this breed its bad rep because if that were true then wouldnt the dogman of the past be labeled in that same category? Its not the thugs who take these dogs to the dog park and something happens, and majority of the time its not their dog who attacked someone else. Personally i hate any negitive press that gets attributed to breed, but i think that it comes from irresponsible owners. In a way i feel like a lot of people on these forums contradict themselves because they talk about not judging the breed as a whole but people judge a group as a whole(and im not talking about race but in some situations it applies). To make a long winded question short, why is that SOMETIMES people blame "THUGS" or used on another website "URBAN" for the bad rep that pit bull owners get when most of the people are going by looks and dont really know the person at all.

(Im not saying that everyone feels this way but a lot of people do, and im just looking for opinions bc its a stereotype that isnt deserved in my opinion)

Honestly, I haven't read all the replies, but I can assume what they say, because I feel a lot of people will answer the same way.
Stereotypes and myths persist because A) they are recurring patterns and B) because hysteria makes ratings.
I don't think all black people look like thugs, like you're suggesting. I have 3 best friends, 2 are black. What makes people thugs are actions. I live in baltimore city, and I can tell you I see more white thugs than anything, with their big white tees, pants past their asses, 'swagga' on, and big headed bullies with 8 inch spike harnesses. People WANT to act like thugs, and most of them don't have the balls to actually be one.
I'd say there are more WANNA-BE thugs out there owning 'pit bulls' than real thugs, which in my opinion is almost worse.
I WILL stereotype thugs, because they stereotype themselves.
No one on here, to my believe, has ever said black people can't own pit bulls because they're all thugs and will use them for dogfighting and bybing.
I think YOU are stereotyping those of us on here who are sick and tired of dealing with the BS that the THUGS AND SUBURBAN IDIOTS ALIKE create.
So please, to use some 'thug' lingo, 'don't hate the playa, hate the game'.
If you can't handle the social caste you are put in when you own one of these dogs, either grow a thicker skin or don't own one, because guess what, I'm a 5'1 jewish white girl and I still get dirty looks.

[7HlBQS8j]

I understand what you are talking about with the Look and people judging but like I said it really does not matter because that is not me and the only people that really matter know that. and to be honest until I read your post today and went back and started looking for it I never even noticed how often Thug was used on here. but I guess that is because I was not looking for the negative in the post I was trying to find the positive information that the person was trying to share I see rednecks blamed and once again I do not focus on that term I look for positive in the post. and I do this because over the computer you can not see tone or expression so it is very easy to take something the wrong way and see a post as negative until you go back and look for the positive in that post.

[Green_Monkey23]

i think people are assuming that i think that everyone who says thugs on here are using it in the same context. Im actually going to post some of the comments from other sites where people have used the word, and you make your own observation. I think when i do this you will understand my question and point a lot better, although you still may not agree which is perfectly fine by me, everyone is open to their own opinions.

[Sopsneork]

As i said im far from it, college educated, grad school soon, and to be considered a thug in some peoples eyes bc of the music i like, the way i dress, walk, talk etc would be considered a thug. I know not in every ones eyes, i was just trying to get imput on the matter bc i am somewhat lost to why people would say "thug"

Sorry, if you don't want people to think you're a thug, don't act like one. I'm sick and tired of people being like "I'm black, wear big dark clothes, talk like I'm uneducated, listen to loud obnoxious music, walk like one leg is bigger than the other, and all of these things are associated with people who commit illegal activities. Why am I being stereotyped?"
Seriously, put some pants on, tuck your shirt in, turn your music down, see a chiropractor, and stop blaming society for your problems.

---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

And to answer the title of this post "Why? Can anyone help?", the why: because society sees a recurring trend of dangerous behavior and seeks to stereotype those individuals to protect themselves; the can anyone help: the only thing that will help is for those individuals adding to the stereotype to cease and desist, until then, nothing will change.

[Green_Monkey23]

If you read some of my other post you would see that i stated, i dont wear baggy jeans, i wear levies, (fitted jeans), i also said that i wear polos, i dont wear white tees unless its a v neck and deff not baggy, and yes a fitted cap. I also said that i do not believe in the "because im black phrase". I think before you comment you should actually read my post before criticizing. I have more of the "prep" look. The only thing that you might have said that evens applies to me would be the music, which btw i dont blast, but i think a lot of YOUNG people do in general.
being that i am a college athlete i not on represent myself but, my family, team and classmates. I dont talk uneducated, i dont pretend to be anything that im not. In a way you kinda of just did what i was saying a lot of people do, u suggested that i did all these things which i stated in a previous post that i didnt do any of those things lol

[7HlBQS8j]

i think people are assuming that i think that everyone who says thugs on here are using it in the same context. Im actually going to post some of the comments from other sites where people have used the word, and you make your own observation. I think when i do this you will understand my question and point a lot better, although you still may not agree which is perfectly fine by me, everyone is open to their own opinions.

rioechhs in doing that you are only adding to the issue in my opinion. why does this bother you. It sounds like you are taking this as a personal attack on you. If you are not that type of person you do not need to validate that to anyone. you know who and what you are and that is all that matter.

[Sopsneork]

If you read some of my other post you would see that i stated, i dont wear baggy jeans, i wear levies, (fitted jeans), i also said that i wear polos, i dont wear white tees unless its a v neck and deff not baggy, and yes a fitted cap. I also said that i do not believe in the "because im black phrase". I think before you comment you should actually read my post before criticizing. I have more of the "prep" look. The only thing that you might have said that evens applies to me would be the music, which btw i dont blast, but i think a lot of YOUNG people do in general.
being that i am a college athlete i not on represent myself but, my family, team and classmates. I dont talk uneducated, i dont pretend to be anything that im not. In a way you kinda of just did what i was saying a lot of people do, u suggested that i did all these things which i stated in a previous post that i didnt do any of those things lol

So what you're saying is you don't walk, talk, or act like a thug, so what reason do people have to think your a thug. Do you want people to feel bad for you because you're stereotyped as such? Don't say 'well I'm black so people think I'm a thug'. If you look like a preppy college student, that's what people will think you are.
I read through your posts after I posted, and what I found is you reiterating yourself. Semantics, my friend, will not get you anywhere.
This is off topic anyway. I answered your original question. If you want to turn this into a battle of words we can do that in PMs.